Relay Trainer Activity
A single board computer using an electromechanical CPU
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Activity for Relay Trainer
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Paul T Schreiber posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
This begs the question: why does the Program Counter relays uses 2K (R204) instead of 100ohms? The data sheet for the relay stated the minimum relay pull-in voltage for a 12V relay to be 9.6V. If the nominal coil resistance is 1K (it's 960 +-10%) if R204 is 2K as spec'd, the relay sees 4V. So how is the relay supposed to engage with less than 50% of the specified pull-in? For reference, I was a Field Application Engineer for both Omron and Panasonic relays. I understand this 9.6V pull-in is a minimum,...
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New to the Relay Computer (still soldering). I downloaded the Window Assembler off the link, it runs fine (Win11) but clicking the "View Listing" button crashes (throws a file exception). Can the Assembler make a text file of the listing in the current directory? Like the good old days??
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New to the Relay Computer (still soldering). I downloaded the Window Assembler off the link, it run fine but clicking the "View Listing" button crashes (throws a file exception). Can the Assembler make a text file of the listing in the current directory? Like the good old days??
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Alex posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Hello all, I'm trying to load up the prime number search program example (primes-hist) from the git and MPLAB is doing me no favors. Would anyone be willing to run the asm supplied and shoot me back a hex for the PIC24FV32KA301? I'm not sure if the problem is with my headers but whatever im doing, MPLAB isnt liking it. If anyone is willing, thanks in advance!
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mkchan posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Hello, I fix it. The LED was reversed soldering! Thanks
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Hello, I got the problem like this, The LED D21 doesn't on but when running the demo program, the LED lightly flash. It seem the connection of the LED is good. I will continuous to check the circuit. Thanks
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Hello, The problem was fixed by replaced 74HC595. But found another problem, LED D21 doesn't on. (Write data 7). I will start a new post Thanks
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Joe Allen posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Nice! Interesting that you got a bad 4017.. But the board has other problem. It cannot run the build in problem (enter 10 then run). I will start a new post. There is a tuning step: you need to find relays that work correctly in the flip-flops by swapping them. There is some text about this in the build guide.
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hello, My board had a problem on the keypad (please check my previous post) and fixed by replacing U23. Now it has other problem, the board cannot run the build in program (press 10 & run). I need to press run or step 15 times (or 16 times), the board auto run by itself. I guess U3, U4, U5 or U6 having problem (74HCT595). I will buy replacement to fix it. I checked the code in addresses : ADD Content 10 48 00 90 00 11 48 00 E9 01 12 00 62 01 0A 13 08 00 00 02 14 08 0E 01 02 15 00 66 02 18 16 08 E0...
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Hello, It is a good news, the problem was fixed by replacing the IC U23 (74HC4017 work, 4014 also work). Thanks for everybody here. But the board has other problem. It cannot run the build in problem (enter 10 then run). I will start a new post. Thanks
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Hello, It is a bad news, after replaced the both PIC ICs, the board does the same thing!. I am continuous to investigate the problem!. Thanks
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Hello, The ICs were arrived. I will fix the board this Sunday. Thanks
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Niclas Hoyer posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
I successfully just built my relay computer using J104D relays from CIT. The "J104D2C12VDC.15S" relays work very well, e.g. https://www.digikey.de/de/products/detail/cit-relay-and-switch/J104D2C12VDC-15S/12503689?s=N4IgTCBcDa4CxwJwFoBSBGADHAImAwumAGo74B06ArAMrIByOIAugL5A I did not have to interchange any relays, they seem to be working as they should. updated BOM attached
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Hello Joe Allen, I sent an e-mail to you in Tindie, please check. Thanks
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Hello Francis Bauer, Good idea, I will try your suggestion. Because I don't have programmer, I will contact Joe Allen to get the U24. Many thanks, mkchan
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Francis Bauer posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
It appears that the waveforms for the key presses look fine. At this point I suspect that U24 is flaky. You could try removing U24 and carefully bending pin 17 and one of the other keyboard col pins (18,19 or 3) so that when you reinsert U24 those pins don't go into the socket. You can then by using a couple of wire jumpers with clips, try switching the suspect col with the another col to see if the problem follows the switched pin or if it stays the same. Connect the other end of the jumpers to...
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Hi, Why don't you contact me on Tindie- I can send you a replacement U24. Also they are easy to program right on the board if you have the PICKit: buying a blank part and programming your own might be faster if you are not in the USA. Thanks, Joe
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Hello, Another fining, When I try to run the build-in program (enter 10 and run after power on), it just run in "one" step, I need to press "run" serval time, the board then run automatically, then stop. Please see the video. It seem the U24 faulty, isn't it? Thanks
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Hello, I checked by oscilloscope, when the key "4,5,6,B,DEC" pressed, col 2 with a plus in 2Vp-p (please see video.), other col without any signal. I also checked other col, when col 0 key's pressed, only signal appeared on col0 (same signal level and sharp), no other signal on col 1,2 and 3 Col 1 and 3 did the same thing! it seem no short circuit on the keyboard matrix. The trace from col2 to U24 pin 17 is ok.
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Hello, Thanks for your answered. (1) Putting the DMM in DC volts mode..., Yes, i will use oscilloscope / DMM to check the col 0 to 3 to compare the different of keys down/up (2) Since switches 4,5,6 are having issues... before I asked for help, I checked all the solderings are ok, no short pin etc. (3) ...somehow U24 itself is flaky..., I have considered this point, but I don't have 16F720 programmer, so !!! (4) I will try to replace the 74HC4017, but now, it is not in hand. I will buy it. Would...
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Interesting problem. To verify resistance/switches how about carefully connecting one of your DMM probes to the R161 resistor leg (where you have been placing your tweezers) and the other probe to pin 17 of U24. Measuring resistance (board powered off), what do you see when you press the 4,5,6,B, DEC, FREQ switches. They should all measure about the same when the switch is pressed, something low, less than a couple of ohms. Now move the probe on the R161 to its other leg (GND). Now what do you measure...
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video (2)
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video (1)
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Hello, I have followed your suggestion to check, Resistance to the GND, R159-162 are normal, and tried to changed the value (from 22k to 100k?) of it but no any improvement. I found a defect on U24 socked (Please see attached), I replaced it. No any short soldering on PCB, PCB traces are all prefect. The buttons are checked and also replaced (the switches 4,5,6) by new. As the result, on any changed!!! The symptom is very weired, only low sensivity on the keys 4,5 and 6. the key "B" is ok! I use...
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Congratulations on getting your SBC Relay computer mostly working. Usually when you have a problem like this, where something starts working when you probe it using a metal object, you (your body) is supplying additional capacitance/noise into the circuit. This is usually an indication that there is a solder connection or printed circuit board trace problem and that the circuit doesn't have a good low resistance connection. Do you have a DMM (Digital Mulitmeter) that you can use to measure the resistance...
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Hello, It is a very weir fault of my relay trainer, I made it, everything ok but only in the row of the keybord "6" in low sensitivity. I don't know how to explain it, please see the video. Why does digital circuit with low sensitivity! If I use a tweezer to touch the R161 and press "6". The function comes back... All 7 seg. LEDs are ok. Power supply +5V +12V are ok, no any ripple. I tried to replace the transistor Q10 to Q5 , the keys of the row and also R159 to R162 but no any improvement. The...
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Jim Bailey modified a comment on discussion General Discussion
Hello Everyone, It seems TE Connectivity is going to be discontinuing the V23105A5003A201 relay's at some point in the near future, however they don't give the date (https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-8-1393792-8.html). I know other some people used alternatives which proved to be compatible. At the moment Mouser and probably other still have a good stock, but I figured it would be good to mention this in case anyone wanted to grab a couple of spares for their existing computer or even order some...
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Hello Everyone, It seems TE Connectivity is going to be discontinuing the V23105A5003A201 relay's in some point in the near future, however they don't give the date (https://www.te.com/usa-en/product-8-1393792-8.html). I know other poeple used diffrent but compatable relays in thier builds with that worked well. At the moment Mouser and probably other still have a good stock, but I figured it would be good to mention this in case anyone wanted to grab a couple of spares for their existing computer...
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Mark Lewus posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
8 months later and you still can't get the sn754410 from digikey or mouser. Jameco has the uln2803a for $1.95. Digikey has the l293d but they are $8.50 each...
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Charles Husman posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Hi, I want to use this system as i hire different trainer for physical training but here is A.I that also do the same with just see the body and recommend best training for a male or female. I just wanto know is it use some open source algorithm or its your made-up product?
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Ryan Crosby modified a comment on discussion General Discussion
Tetris Hi all, I've just completed my Tetris clone implementation for the relay computer. It clocks in at 255 total instructions, leaving very little room to spare! I had to get pretty creative with saving space in order to fit within the 256 instructions available. Many of the instructions are "custom" (not on the reference card) and many are re-used as variable storage as well. Nevertheless, it's amazing what this little computer can do. Project link: https://github.com/crozone/relaysbc-programs/tree/master/community/tetris...
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Tetris Hi all, I've just completed my Tetris clone implementation for the relay computer. It clocks in at 255 total instructions, leaving very little room to spare! I had to get pretty creative with saving space in order to fit within the 256 instructions available. Many of the instructions are "custom" (not on the reference card) and many are re-used as variable storage as well. Nevertheless, it's amazing what this little computer can do. Project link: https://github.com/crozone/relaysbc-programs/tree/master/community/tetris...
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Thanks David, the PIC24 would certainly do the trick. It'd need to be on a daughter board to be pin compatible as you say. I also like the way those Wilson Mines Co modules connect vertically. Using that style it'd be possible to maybe make a shim board that still uses the PIC24FV32KA301-I/P to add extra SRAM. I've also been looking at the RP2040 (Raspberry Pico) as a candidate for the microcontroller, since I already have a development "stamp" board and some Thumby tiny game consoles that use them....
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David Cary posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Ryan, Today the PIC24 series available in-stock in through-hole packages appears to top out at 48 kBytes of SRAM, which seems to be far more than enough. The PIC24EP512GP202-I/SP and the PIC24EP512MC202-I/SP are SPDIP-28 devices with 48 kBytes of SRAM and 512 kB of program Flash. They're obviously not perfectly drop-in pin-compatible replacements for the PIC24FV32KA301-I/P used in the Relay Trainer, because that is a PDIP-20 device. So perhaps an SPI-SRAM or SPI-EERAM or SPI-EPROM or SPI-FRAM or...
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Tetris Hi all, I've just completed my Tetris clone implementation for the relay computer. It clocks in at 251 total instructions, leaving very little room to spare! I had to get pretty creative with saving space in order to fit within the 256 instructions available. Many of the instructions are "custom" (not on the reference card) and many are re-used as variable storage as well. Nevertheless, it's amazing what this little computer can do. Project link: https://github.com/crozone/relaysbc-programs/tree/master/community/tetris...
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Way cool Ryan, good job in packing instructions/memory to the max. This version gives the player plenty of time to make their moves. Reminds me of writing/playing a version of Pong I called Hard-Copy Pong, where instead of using a CRT each "frame" was printed on the line printer. Talk about giving you plenty of time to make each move...
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Slow Tetris, this is awesome! We need a video :-)
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Tetris Hi all, I've just completed my Tetris clone implementation for the relay computer. It clocks in at 254 total instructions, leaving very little room to spare! I had to get pretty creative with saving space in order to fit within the 256 instructions available. Many of the instructions are "custom" (not on the reference card) and many are re-used as variable storage as well. Nevertheless, it's amazing what this little computer can do. Project link: https://github.com/crozone/relaysbc-programs/tree/master/community/tetris...
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Tetris Hi all, I've just completed my Tetris clone implementation for the relay computer. It clocks in at 254 total instructions, leaving very little room to spare! I had to get pretty creative with saving space in order to fit within the 256 instructions available. Many of the instructions are "custom" (not on the reference card) and many are re-used as variable storage as well. Nevertheless, it's amazing what this little computer can do. Project link: https://github.com/crozone/relaysbc-programs/tree/master/community/tetris...
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Ken Peter modified a comment on discussion General Discussion
Totally different ALUs, fair warning so not to confuse. But I also have difficulty integrating leftward wired carry with rightward rotation. I reverse the word and rotate left instead, which unfortunately leaves the result backward. Not a problem for continued left shifting, only strange... I also have a relay ALU under construction that doesn't rotate at all yet. Using primitive "grain of wheat" lamps both for display and flyback suppression.
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Totally different ALUs, fair warning so not to confuse. But I also have difficulty integrating leftward wired carry with rightward rotation. I reverse the word and rotate left instead, which unfortunately leaves the result backward. Not a problem for continued left shifting, only strange... I also have a relay ALU under construction that doesn't rotate at all yet, except A+B when both are same. Using primitive "grain of wheat" lamps both for display and flyback suppression.
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Totally different ALUs, fair warning so not to confuse. But I also have difficulty integrating leftward wired carry with rightward rotation. I reverse the word and rotate left instead, which unfortunately leaves the result backward. Not a problem, only strange... I also have a relay ALU under construction that doesn't rotate at all yet, except A+B when both are same. Using primitive "grain of wheat" lamps both for display and flyback suppression.
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Totally different ALU, warning so not to confuse. But I also have difficulty integrating leftward wired carry with rightward rotation. I reverse the word and rotate left instead, which unfortunately leaves the result backward. Not a problem, only strange... I also have a relay ALU under construction that doesn't rotate at all yet, except A+B when both are same. Using primitive "grain of wheat" lamps both for display and flyback suppression.
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Totally different ALU, warning so not to confuse. But I also have difficulty integrating leftward wired carry with rightward rotation. I reverse the word and rotate left instead, which unfortunately leaves the result backward. Not a problem, only strange... I also have a relay ALU under construction that doesn't rotate at all yet, except A+B when both are same. Using primitive lamps both for display and flyback suppression.
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Totally different ALU, warning so not to confuse. But I also have difficulty integrating leftward wired carry with rightward rotation. I reverse the word and rotate left instead, which unfortunately leaves the result backward. Not a problem, only strange... I also have a relay ALU that doesn't rotate at all yet, except A+B when both are same. Using primitive lamps both for display and flyback suppression.
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Totally different ALU, warning so not to confuse. But I also have difficulty integrating leftward wired carry with rightward rotation. I reverse the word and rotate left instead, which unfortunately leaves the result backward. Not a problem, only strange... I also have a relay ALU that doesn't rotate at all yet, except A+B when both are same. Using primitive lamps both for display and flyback suppression.
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Totally different ALU, warning so not to confuse. But I also have difficulty integrating leftward wired carry with rightward rotation. I reverse the word and rotate left instead, which unfortunately leaves the result backward. Not a problem, only strange... I also have a relay ALU that doesn't rotate at all yet, except A+B when both are same. Using primitive lamps both for display and flyback suppression.
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Thanks for the confirmation and insight :) I suspected it might have something to do with saving relays, makes a lot of sense now. The immediate carry out (the inverted one) from rotate right is useful for a few instructions: jump on even, jump on odd. I really like the current implementation for this reason. I'm actually using the immediate ROR carry output for a the instruction 0x820Aaabb, which is basically lsr aa, jcc bb, in a single instruction. It allows shifting a bitmask right in a single...
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Oh, you are correct, the documentation is wrong. When ROR is set, the input is from A_DATA. I think I originally wanted to rotate the add/and output for more instruction possibilities, but this ends up requiring more relays. The reason is that the condition logic wants inverted carry, but it's not available at the add/and output (but is available in A_DATA). I think I also considered putting the rotate logic in the A_DATA path, but then you wouldn't have access to the carry out from the rotate. The...
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Hi, this question is mostly for Joe with respect to how the relay computer ALU functions. I've been experimenting with a lot of custom instructions which are sensitive to the exact behaviour of the ALU+ROR, and how the ALU carry output is handled. The CPU block diagram included in the docs, as well as the instruction execution steps seem to imply: ADD and AND are calculated in parallel The ADD carry output is fed into CC jump logic and ROR unit The data result of ADD and AND are fed into a MUX which...
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Hi, this question is mostly for Joe with respect to how the relay computer ALU functions. I've been experimenting with a lot of custom instructions which are sensitive to the exact behaviour of the ALU+ROR, and how the ALU carry output is handled. The CPU block diagram included in the docs, as well as the instruction execution steps seem to imply: ADD and AND are calculated in parallel The ADD carry output is fed into CC jump logic and ROR unit The data result of ADD and AND are fed into a MUX which...
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Hi, this question is mostly for Joe with respect to how the relay computer ALU functions. I've been experimenting with a lot of custom instructions which are sensitive to the exact behaviour of the ALU+ROR, and how the ALU carry output is handled. The CPU block diagram included in the docs, as well as the instruction execution steps seem to imply: ADD and AND are calculated in parallel The ADD carry output is fed into CC jump logic and ROR unit The data result of ADD and AND are fed into a MUX which...
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Zef posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Thanks Joe. That's given me some options. Much appreciated.
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jameco has ULN2803A: https://www.jameco.com/z/ULN2803A-Major-Brands-Transistor-Darlington-NPN-50-Volt-0-5-Amp-18-Pin-PDIP_34315.html Amazon.com has them also.
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Adafruit has L293, but very expensive: https://www.adafruit.com/product/807 Amazon.com also has them, much cheaper. Just search for L293.
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Adafruit has L293, but very exxpensive: https://www.adafruit.com/product/807 Amazon also has them, much cheaper. Just search for L293.
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Adafruit has L293, but very exxpensive: https://www.adafruit.com/product/807
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jameco has ULN2803A: https://www.jameco.com/z/ULN2803A-Major-Brands-Transistor-Darlington-NPN-50-Volt-0-5-Amp-18-Pin-PDIP_34315.html
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L293x (16-bit DIP versions) should work instead of SN754410NE. I specified the SN754410NE because it was cheaper. But I don't see them in stock either. I can't believe these total jellybean ICs are all out..
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Hi, I'm about to attempt to make my relay board however there are a couple of components that are out of stock that I'm not sure of the best replacement. SN754410NE Quadruple Half-H Driver ULN2803A Darlington Transistors Eight NPN Array Could anyone advise on alternatives? If you can link to Mouser (my preference) or Digikey that would be awesome. Thank you.
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Tom Uban posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Sigh, I missed that in the docs, or at least I've forgotten it since I built the machine at the start of 2020. Thanks for your clarification.
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As per the documentation the save/restore functionality is limited to the lower 128 bytes. So unfortunately this limitation is as designed. Snippet from Keypad section of the documentation: Save / Restore memory (RAM) to non-volatile storage (EEPROM) <freq> <dec> Restore memory from non-volatile <freq> <inc> Save memory to non-volatile Note: (Only lower 128 addresses are saved / restored).</inc></freq></dec></freq>
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I have recently noticed a problem with the EEPROM save/restore functionality. As my program grew to exceed 0x80, I discovered that only the lower half of the program is restored after the program is saved, the board is powered off/on and the program is restored. I noticed this when I was able to load the program via serial and run the program without errors, but if the program was loaded, saved, the board powered off/on, restored and run again, the program would fail due to the upper half of memory...
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I finally finished my laser cut plexiglass case. I've engraved some additional labels on the top glass, like the TTL serial legend, CC jump bit legend, and relay function names. On the backing plate I engraved the 3 PCB layouts for some extra flair. Both designs are in Inkscape SVG format. The SVGs contian the PCB layouts as a reference. They are also rendered in PDF format for cutting on a Trotec laser (black = engrave, red 0.01mm = cut). Imgur Album Mirror Github Repo/Case
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Ryan, Your case looks great. Including the layout on the back is awesome. Thank you for sharing.
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I finally finished my laser cut plexiglass case. I've engraved some additional labels on the top glass, like the TTL serial legend, CC jump bit legend, and relay function names. On the backing plate I engraved the 3 PCB layouts for some extra flair. Both designs are in Inkscape SVG format. The SVGs contian the PCB layouts as a reference. They are also rendered in PDF format for cutting on a Trotec laser (black = engrave, red 0.01mm = cut). Imgur Album Mirror Github Repo/Case
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I finally finished my laser cut plexiglass case. I've engraved some additional labels on the top glass, like the TTL serial legend, CC jump bit legend, and relay function names. On the backing plate I engraved the 3 PCB layouts for some extra flair. Both designs are in Inkscape SVG format. The SVGs contian the PCB layouts as a reference. They are also rendered in PDF format for cutting on a Trotec laser (black = engrave, red 0.01mm = cut). Imgur Album Mirror Github Repo
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Thanks Joe, this is exactly what I was looking for. With 420 bytes currently free for stack, if I remove (or dynamically disable/reclaim) the assembler symbol table, I'd get up to 420 + 256 = 676 bytes. With a single additional 128 word/512 bytes page, that'd leave 676 - 512 = 164 bytes for stack. I have a hunch that 164 bytes of stack will be enough, so a mod to add a single extra bank of memory might actually work. An SPI-RAM chip could be a cool addon and allow for lots of banks. I'd probably...
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Well here is the map file: There are 420 bytes free, but they are used by the stack. I don't really know the maximum stack depth. I wish the MCU had more EEPROM space for retaining the program memory when the power is off, though I guess the main flash memory could also be used for this... hmm.. You could add a SPI-RAM chip pretty easily, if you don't mind added wires on the board. BTW, I discovered that optimization is now enabled by default in MPLABX. In MPLAB, the optimizing compiler was not free...
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I'm considering doing some hacking on the "main" PIC microcontroller firmware in order to add bank switching to the relay computer. Essentially, the idea would be to keep the lower 128 words static as they are now, but make the upper 128 bytes "switchable" by writing the bank number to a magic bank switching register at address 0xFF (or perhaps not a memory address at all, but instead a magic instruction, similar to out or outc). In this way, the relay computer could access more than 256 words, by...
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I'm considering doing some hacking on the "main" PIC microcontroller firmware in order to add bank switching to the relay computer. Essentially, the idea would be to keep the lower 128 words static as they are now, but make the upper 128 bytes "switchable" by writing the bank number to a magic bank switching register at address 0xFF (or perhaps not a memory address at all, but instead a magic instruction, similar to out or outc). In this way, the relay computer could access more than 256 words, by...
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It is interesting that the first 'st' command is able to store a 90h into memory 00h, but the 2nd 'st' command doesn't store E9h but 21h into memory 01h. Try manually storing values into memory. You can do this from the unit's keypad: 00 ADR 00000090 INC 000000E9 INC Now do a 'd' (dump) and see what the values are in memory 00h and 01h, they should be 00000090h and 000000E9h. Let us know what you see. Try single stepping through the program and watching the LEDs on the unit to see if you can see...
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It is interesting that the first 'st' command is able to store a 90h into memory 00h, but the 2nd 'st' command doesn't store E9h but 21h into memory 01h. Try manually storing values into memory. You can do this from the unit's keypad: 00 ADR 00000090 INC 000000E9 INC Now do a 'd' (dump) and see what the values are in memory 00h and 01h, they should be 00000090h and 000000E9h. Let us know what you see. Try single stepping through the program and watching the LEDs on the unit to see if you can see...
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John Durgan posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Here is the new trace: Thanks for the help J Durgan On Sep 1, 2021, at 1:46 AM, Francis Bauer rmbguru@users.sourceforge.net wrote: In looking at your trace log, the program is exiting (program counter set to 1ah) immediately after storing the initial start values and doing the first comparison. The comparison is checking to see if the value in memory location 01h is equal to 0. The initial value in 01h is supposed to be E9h, but the trace is showing 21h. Do a dump 'd' after your program stops to...
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In looking at your trace log, the program is exiting (program counter set to 1ah) immediately after storing the initial start values and doing the first comparison. The comparison is checking to see if the value in memory location 01h is equal to 0. The initial value in 01h is supposed to be E9h, but the trace is showing 21h. Do a dump 'd' after your program stops to see what is actually stored in 01h. The program exiting early seems to say that the value in 01h is 0h, instead of E9h or even 21h...
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Hello, I must have forgotten to attach it. Here it is J Durgan On Aug 30, 2021, at 10:52 PM, Francis Bauer rmbguru@users.sourceforge.net wrote: John, I don't find your log file attachment. I only see my original log file that I attached. new build with problems https://sourceforge.net/p/relaysbc/discussion/general/thread/4a41bed5d9/?limit=25#2681/6a38/a61d/77f3/ca5d/c0e3/f44f Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in https://sourceforge.net/p/relaysbc/discussion/general/ https://sourceforge.net/p/relaysbc/discussion/general/...
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John, I don't find your log file attachment. I only see my original log file that I attached.
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Hello, I am finally getting back to this project. Attached is a log file of what happens when I run the test program using g 10. only the first several steps work then it quits. the last thing that prints on the screen is some PC code that does not appear on your printout. Any suggestions as to what might be wrong would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely John d On Aug 16, 2021, at 2:08 PM, Francis Bauer rmbguru@users.sourceforge.net wrote: John, The 't' command takes an argument, either "on" or "off"....
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John, The 't' command takes an argument, either "on" or "off". If you don't include the argument the system doesn't understand the incomplete command. I've attached a log file showing what you should see when doing "t on" and then "g 10". Compare the log file to what you are seeing, hopefully something will stand out...
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Hello, I finally got the correct til serial cable, and got connected to putty. When I type the t command I get a “huh?” response. Is that correct?. Attached is a listing of what I think is the built in demo program, When I run it on the machine it completes only about the first five steps then stops. Please advise If this is not what you need please let me know what I need to do> Thanks very much J Durgan On Jul 2, 2021, at 8:31 AM, Joe Allen jhallen@users.sourceforge.net wrote: Nice progress! I...
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Thomas R Consi posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Figured-it out, I wasn't giving the assembler any file to assemble. Works fine. Tom
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I installed Cygwin and attempted to compile the assembler. It compiled and I got the resulting asm.exe file. Unfortunately it will not run from the Cygwin command line, whereas a simple C program will. When I try to run the application from the Windows File Explorer, I see a window open and then immediately close, it happened in a fraction of a second, as if the program started and then quickly terminated. Any advice to solve this problem would be appreciated. Tom
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John, I've attached a copy of one of Joe's documents that describes the serial connection and abilities (and more) . See page 36 "Serial Console" in the attached PDF. Besides getting the USB -> TTL cable you will need to install a Serial Terminal Emulator. Here is a list of a number of ones available for Windows based machines, there are others like MiniCom for Linux: PuTTy <-- I've used this one for a lot of different applications. TeraTerm <--- I've used this one for a lot of different applications,...
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Got it. Thanks Joe, Tom
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Hello, Since we last communicated, I have gone over the solder joints with a high powered glass. All seems ok. I have also replaced all the chips except for the pre-programmed pic chips. I did use a wrist anti static wrist strap for this. The machine still stops on step 5 showing 21.90 on the digital display when I run the test program. I believe it was Joe who suggested that I buy a TTL cable using terminal console software. I’m not terribly familiar with doing this, but I know that a baud rate...
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There is only a single port, but it is four bits wide. So, for example, if you write 9 (binary 1001) to the port, bit 0 and bit 3 of it will turn on, and bits 1 and 2 will turn off. You can also send characters to the console serial port with the OUTC instruction.
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I just got my Relay Computer up and running and am happily learning how to program it. While running the counter program given in the video I noticed that only output 0 is accessed. There is no obvious way from the OUT instruction that I could see to specify which output port to use. How do you specify which output or input port to use in a program? Thanks! Tom P.S. The printed circuit board was excellent and the computer went together without a hitch. Kudos to Joe on an outstanding design!
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Good job on finding the mis-inserted resistor. Once you get a serial cable, we should be able to find out what is still not working on your board. In case you haven't seen them already, here are links to Joe's Videos about the Relay Trainer/Computer, and shows the running the of 10 program: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hJoalcK68 https://youtu.be/5ADQcsUniFY
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Good job on finding the mis-inserted resistor. Once you get a serial cable, we should be able to find out what is still not working on your board. In case you haven't seen it already, here is a link to Joe's Video about the Relay Trainer/Computer, and shows the running the of 10 program: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hJoalcK68
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See my response to the TTL Serial cables post.
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There are a number of sources for suitable cables, the main thing is to get a version that is for working with 5v devices/boards. This one should work, it is only $7.95 US https://www.sparkfun.com/products/17831 This one should work for both 3.3v and 5v devices/boards, $17.95 US https://www.adafruit.com/product/70 This one will work too, but is $20.50 US https://ftdichip.com/products/ttl-232r-5v/ NOTE: When connecting your serial cable be sure to use the J18 connector near the bottom left side of...
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Hi, Where do I get “the serial cable” JD On Jul 2, 2021, at 8:31 AM, Joe Allen jhallen@users.sourceforge.net wrote: Nice progress! I would check again the PC FF and 00 test, make sure the PC LEDs turn on and off. This the most likely problem. Next, do you have the serial cable? Try running the program with trace on ("t on" command), we can then compare it with a working system to quickly see what's going on. new build with problems https://sourceforge.net/p/relaysbc/discussion/general/thread/4a41bed5d9/?limit=25#2681/6a38/a61d...
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I need a ttl cble, so I went to the supplier you recommended in your last post. The sight lists a lot of different items there. Which is the one I should order? Thanks John D.
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Nice progress! I would check again the PC FF and 00 test, make sure the PC LEDs turn on and off. This the most likely problem. Next, do you have the serial cable? Try running the program with trace on ("t on" command), we can then compare it with a working system to quickly see what's going on.
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Hello Again, The problem with the 0 LED turned out to be that one lead of the resister leading to Led 0 was run through the wrong hole in the board, there being two holes very very close together. So now the 0 LED works. Also the clock speed issue was that I did not set the clock speed to zero, then use the trim pot. The only remaining issue is that the program 10 only runs thru 5 clock cycles, then stops. 21.90 appears in the digital display. Any Suggestions? John Durgan On Jul 1, 2021, at 5:29...
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Marcus Englert posted a comment on discussion General Discussion
Francis, I have to look it up but it is the newest version (I received it in early April) . It sits with my electronics (professional) guy after I have given up and after two months and resoldering the board twice he has given up too. Poti is one issue (so the poti actually works and delivers the required voltages) but the bigger issue is relay #5: #5 shows a somewhat erratic behaviour. Sometimes on, sometimes off. Changing the relay didn't help, neither did checking and resoldering. Resistors are...
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Marcus, I've built two of these relay computers back in 2018/2019, one (2017 version) from Joe Allen and one variant from another enthusiast who made some changes like adding a FTDI USB interface. The only problems I had was from my own overlooking of some solder joints. The manual clock adjustment using the trim pot works fine on both of mine. So what generation board are you working with ?
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John, OK, it sounds like K1, K2, K3 aren't the problem. Let's look at the driving signals to see if we can see changes. The PC Bit 0 LED is connected through R57 from R202 Pin 8 through R202 Pin 9 through U21 Pin 7. Using a voltmeter or DMM (which I hope you have) see if you can see the voltage levels change when you change PC Bit 0 using <step>. Starting first at U21 Pin 7.</step> Note: You can check R58, R202 Pin 7, R202 Pin 10 and U21 Pin 6 to watch how PC Bit 1 changes. You should also check...
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Hi, I have the same problem with the trim poti and after extensive testing we found that the board has faults. There are also other faults in the board, so at least my version is useless. Thanks Marcus Am 01.07.2021 um 18:43 schrieb John Durgan jdurgan@users.sourceforge.net: Hello, The 0 PC LED is definitely not lighting. I did as you suggested and swapped out K1 K2 and K3 one at a time. the 0 LED still did not light. at the end of this test, relays 1,2&3 were installed in K4,5,& 6 and 4 , 5 , &6...
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