/u/NovaNation21

9/9/14

InterviewwithTerenceTao
ProfessorofMathematicsatUniversityofCaliforniaLosAngeles

Q:Therearealotoftopicsinolympiadmaththataregularschoolcurriculumwillnever
cover.Ahighschoolcurriculumisluckytoendwithcalculus.Asaprofessordoyouthink
topicslikenumbertheory,combinatorics,andcomplexalgebra/geometryshouldbetaught
inhigherlevelhighschoolclassesorjustreservedforthestudentsindependentlyforthese
olympiads?

A:Thestandardhighschoolcurriculumtraditionallyhasbeenfocusedtowardsphysicsand
engineering.Socalculus,differentialequations,andlinearalgebrahavealwaysbeenthemost
emphasized,andforgoodreasontheseareveryimportant.Thereisnowatrendovertherise
ofcomputerscienceandalsothelifesciences,whichhavebecomemoremathematical.Schools
areslowlytransitioningtoemphasizethingslikecombinatorics,probability,andstatistics.These
thingsaregettingmoreimportant.Numbertheorylesssobecauseithasfewer
applications
cryptographyistheonlyreallybigpracticalapplicationofthesubject.So
mainstreammatheducationisfocusedondifferenttopics.Moststudentswhotakemathclasses
arentgoingtobemathematicians.Theyregoingtobeengineers,statisticiansinmanyways
thatsthemoreimportantmissionofmatheducation.Soitssortofcomplementary.

th
Matheducationhaschangedovertheyears.Inthe19
century,theytaughtspherical

trigonometrybecauseoneofthebiggestapplicationsofmathematicswasnavigatingtheocean.
Thisisnolongersorelevant.Soitsgreatthatwehavethesecompetitionsandthatwekeep
someclassicalmathematicslikeEuclideangeometryandelementarynumbertheory.In
mathematicalresearch,itsgoodtoknowthesethings.Youwilllearnthemeventually,especially
ifyoutakeaclassinit.Atsomepointyoucanjustlearnityourselfandgoandreadabookonit.

ItsreallyeasynowwiththeInternet,itsamazingnow.PeopleaskmehowIknowsomany
areasofmathematics.Mostlyyoujustknowalittlebitandthenyoulookuptherest.Itsso
mucheasiernowthanwhenIwasagraduatestudent.Imeanyouneedacertainamountofbase
mathematicssothatyoucanlearneverythingelsequickly.Butonceyouhavethefoundation,
itsfairlyquick.Soitsgreatthatwehavethecompetitions.Ithinktheycomplementthemain
matheducation,butIdontthinktheyneedtoreplaceit.

Q:Whatwouldyoutellanaspiringorcurrentmathematicsmajoraboutthekindofjobs
availablebesidesteaching?

A:MostpeoplewithBachelorsofMathdontgointoacademicssomuch.YouwouldgetaPhD
forthat.Theresmanythingsyoucandowithamathdegree:actuarialscience,finance,
computergraphics,andanythingquantitativereally.Youcanworkinalab.Ifyouarentafraid
ofequationsorabstractthinking,itseasytopickupanykindofSTEMsubject.Youcangointo
electricalengineeringandtheresalwaysscaryequationslikeMaxwellsEquationsandsoforth.
Butifyouhavethebasicmathtrainingyoucanpickthisup.Youcanmoveveryeasilyinto
StatsImeanStatsishuge.Youcandoinsuranceandallkindsofmedicalthings.Itsavery
flexiblemajor.Mostpeoplewithmathdegreesarenotcalledmathematicians,theymightbe
analysts.Ifyouwanttobeanengineer,obviouslyyourbestrouteistotakeengineeringclasses.
Ifyoudonthavemathematicalbackground,theclassesyoutakewillhelpyoutraintoanalyze
existingsystemsandbuildthingsthathaventbeenbuiltbefore.Ifyouwanttodesignsomething
reallynew,atsomepointyoullhavetomodelwhatyouredoing,whichmightbedifferentfrom
previousmodels,andyouhavetodosomemathematicssomewhere.

Q:Doyoufindmorefulfillmentinteachingorresearching?

A:Theyarecomplementary.Youonlyreallylearnsomethingwhenyoucanteachittosomeone
else.Ifyouhavetodosomethinglikeabstractgeometry,youhavetobeabletodobasic
geometryreallyquickly.Afteryouvetaughtcalculusafewtimesyoucanlookatdifferential

equationsandsayoh,itshouldlooklikethis,whichwouldhavetakenlikehalfanhourasa
studentbutnowtakesafewminutes.Youneedthatspeedinordertotackletheharderproblems,
soitiscomplementary.

Q:Whatdoyouenjoymostaboutmath?

A:Whenyoufinallyfigureoutsomethingthatsbotheredyou.Iftheressomethingthatlooks
likeyoushouldbeabletoanswerandyoucantansweritimmediately,itjustsortofbugsyou.
Andwhenyoufigureoutthetrickthatresolvesit,thenalightbulbgoesoff.Sothatsvery
satisfying,whenyoufinallygetwhatsgoingon,aswellaswhenyouexplainittosomeoneelse
andyouseethelightbulbgoonintheirhead.

Q:Whatisyourfavoritenumberormathematicalconstant?

A:Thefunnythingaboutmathematicsisthatyoudontworkwithregularnumberssomuch.I
neverseea37,IseenalotofwhatIdoinvolvesabignumbernthatgoestoinfinity.Never
anyspecificnumber.

Q:Doyouhaveanyotherinterestsbesidesmath?

A:Iusedtohavemore.Whenyouworkandyouhavefamily,itstough.WhenIwasyoungerI
usedtowatchalotanimeandplaycomputergamesandsoforth,butIhavenotimeforthese
thingsanymore.

Q:Areyouinterestedinseeingyourtwokidsbecomemathematicians?Areyougoingto
pushthematallinthatdirection?

A:Whatevertheyhavethepassionfor.Mysonis11andhehassometalentformath,buthe
doesntreallyhaveapassionforit.Whathereallylikesisacting,theatreandvideoediting
actuallywhichismaybewhathellbecome,Idontknow.

Q:Whataboutprimenumbersinterestsyousomuch?

A:Numbertheoryisoneofthethingsyoucanactuallyappreciate.Isawthesethroughhigh
schoolandcompetitions,soIknewaboutallthesenumbersandconjecturetheoriesveryearly,at
8or9.Ivealwayswantedtomakeprogressinthisarea.Itsnotthemostappliedareaof
mathematics.Ifyouprovethetwinprimeconjecturetoday,itwonthavethatmucheffectin
technologytomorrow.Well,itdependswhatisprovedandhow.Inmanyways,itsthemethods
ofproofthataremoreimportant.[Conjectures]arejustsortofbenchmarkstokeepscore.

Q:Istherearesultthatyouconsiderthemostbeautiful?

A:Idontthinkmuchinthoseterms.Thefunnythingisanythingyouproveyourself,youthink
oh,thatwasaloteasierthanIthought.Youknow,onceyouactuallyseeit,yourealizeit
wasntthathardafterall.

Q:Howdidyoulearntoteachandwhatisyourteachingphilosophy?

A:Sinkorswimbasically.WhenIwasagraduatestudent,Ididntteach,Iwasagrader.I
assistedoneortwoclasses.WhenIfirstcametoUCLAthatwasmyfirstclass.Ihadamentor
teachinganothersessionfortheclasstheydothatforthefirstclass.Heshowedmewhatkinds
ofhomework,midterms,andsyllabiheused.Whenyoustartout,youregivenasyllabusanda
textbookandbasicallytoldtousethetextbookitsnotactuallythatdifficult.

TherewereacouplethingsIhadtolearn.IrememberthefirstexamIgaveoutIputalotof
effortintodesigningverycutequestionswheretheanswertothefirstquestionwouldbeuseful

inthesecondquestion,andsoforth.Ididntrealizethiswouldbeanightmaretograde.When
eachquestionhasasingleanswer,youreeitherrightorwrong.Youdontwantquestionswhere
someonemakesamistakeinthefirststepbuteverythingelseiscorrect,soyouhavetocheck.So
ittookmeawhiletofigureoutwhataregoodquestionsandthatsortofthing.Youshouldmake
clearatthebeginningwhatyourpoliciesareforhomework.Ifyourevagueyoualwaysgetkids
thatsay,Ididntrealizethismidtermwasworththismuch.Canyoureconsiderit?

Q:Whatcanteachersdotomakekidslikemathnotjustcomputationalmathbutthe
ideasofmathlikeproblemsolvingandexploration?

A:Itdependsontheteachersstyle.Someteachersarereallyentertaining.Youknow,theytell
jokes.Noteveryonecandothat.Somecanmakereallyelaboratepresentationsandexperiments.
SomearegoodatfindingreallyrelevantvideosandthingsontheInternet.Sometimesmakinga
classmoreenjoyableorentertainingisnotthesameasmakingitmoreeducational.Iremember
oncewhenItaughtcalculus,oneofthesectionswasquadricsurfaces,likeellipsoids,paraboloids
andsoforth.Sotheresthisthingcalledahyperbolicparaboloid,andIwantedtodemonstrate
this.ItturnsoutthataPringlehastheshapeofahyperbolicparaboloid.SoIbroughtinapackof
Pringlestoclassandsaid,thisisahyperbolicparaboloid,thisiswhatitlookslike.Iatethe
PringleasIwaswritingequationsontheboard.Wellmanyyearslater,Iranintosomeoneonthe
streetwhosaid,Oh,Iknowyou.Itookoneofyourclasses.Iforgetwhatitwas,buttherewasa
Pringle.SoIthought,youdidntrememberanyofthemath,butyourememberthePringle.
Soitdidntreallywork.

Q:Whatdoyouhopetoaccomplishthroughyourresearch?Doyouhaveanyspecific
goals?

A:Noreallyshorttermobjectives.There'salwaysquestionswhichIdlovetosolve(Riemann
Hypothesis,NavierStokes,whatever).Butusuallythesethingsaresooutofreach.We
understandthetoolsthatwehaveprettywell.Weknowthatwithoutanextraororiginalideayou

cantreallyanswerthem.Wedontfocusdirectlyontheselongshotgoals.Alotofthefocusis
incremental.Alotofmathematicianslikenmathematicalresearchtoclimbingacliff.Youreata
certainpointonthecliff,andyourfirstgoalistogetonefoothigher,andyoujustkeepdoing
that.Everytimeyousolveaproblem,naturallyotherproblemsappear.Whatwasextremely
difficultnowjustlooksmoderatelydifficult.Youuseallofyournotesandgetasenseofwhatis
apromisingdirectionbasicallyanytimetheresaphenomenonwhichlooksinterestingandyou
cantexplainit,butlookslikeyoushouldbeabletoanalyzeit.Thatswhatyouwanttostudy.

Q:Whatdoyoufeelarethe2or3mostimportantopenproblemsareinmathematics?

A:Dependswhetheryouweightthembyhoweasytheyaretosolve.ImeanifyousolvedP=NP,
itcouldhavehugeapplications,butitssodifficulttonarrowdown.Itshardtomeasurethe
importance.

Q:Whichofthemillenniumproblemsdoyouthinkwearefurthestfromsolving?In2007
youmentionedinatalkatUCLAthatyouexpectasolutiontoPvs.NPtocomelast,with
theRiemannhypothesisjustbeforeit.Doyouholdthatsameviewtoday?

A:Iwouldsayso.TheseIthinkaredecadesbeforewecansolvethemforsure.

Q:WhataboutNavierStokes?

A:SothereIthinkwehaveachance.ThatoneIthinkweareclosesttoprovingordisproving.
Onedirection[withintheproblem]mightbesolvable.Alotofconjecturesarelikethis.Takethe
Goldbachconjecture:everyevennumberisthesumoftwoprimes.Ifitsfalse,itcouldbe
disprovenbecauseifitturnsoutthatsomehumongousnumberisnotthesumoftwoprimesafter
youcheckallthepossibilities,thenyouvedisproventheGoldbachconjecture.Butnoone
believesthat.Inprincipleitcouldbeeasytodisprove.Butprobablynot.Somaybetheres
chancewithNavierStokes,butitsalongshot.

Q:YouhavethreeIMOappearances,andyouwononeofeachmedal,soyouhave
Olympiadexperience.Doyounoticeanythingdifferentbetweenhowmathcontestsare
nowcomparedtohowtheywereinthelate80swhenyouparticipatedinthem?

A:Imnotinvolvedinthemanymore,buttheylookmuchmoreprofessional.Itwasreallyan
amateurthing.Imeanpeoplewouldtrainformaybe2weeks.Nowtherearesomecountrieswho
havebeentrainingforyearsandareverysystematicwhereyoustudy50yearsworthof
problems.Itsbecomemuchmorelikeaprofessionalsport.Itslikeyouthbaseballitstartsoff
amateurandeventuallysomeoftheprofessionalstakeover,whichmakesitdifferent.Insome
waysitslessfun,insomewaysitsbetter.Onenicethingthoughisthatmanyother
competitionshavesprungup.WhenIwasakiditwasbasicallyjusttheOlympiadsandthings
thatfitintotheOlympiads.Nowtherestheseotheractivitiestooifyoudontwanttobeso
competitive.TheresotherthingslikeMathCirclesandotheronlinewebsiteswhereyoucan
discussproblemsinfriendlyways.Soitsmorediverse.

Q:AtIMO,whydoyouthinkthatChina,Russia,Japan,andtheKoreasalwaysseemto
wintheunofficialteamcompetitionandwinthemostmedalsasateam,oftenwithperfect
scores?DoyouthinkthissaysanythingaboutEnglishspeakingcultureslikeAustralia,the
US,andtheUKandtheiremphasisonmatheducation?

A:Ithinkit'saculturalemphasis.Asiancountriesoftenplacealargerpremiumoninternational
recognitiononanysphere.InAmerica,thisislessimportantasAmericaisagloballeaderinso
manyareas,itdoesntmatterasmuchtothem.Inmanyofthesecountries,theyreactually
tryingtomakethemlesscompetitive.Therearemanystudentswhohaveovertrained.Theygo
andgetthreegoldmedals,buttheysacrificetheirregulareducation,spendingyearsdoing
nothingbutworkingontheseproblems.TheyfinishtheOlympiadandtheyreburntout.
Theyrenotproperlytrained,eventodoamathdegreeortheyllbesickofmathsbythenif
thatswhattheyvebeendoing.Theresabalance.Youcangetalittleobsessedwiththemedal

tallies.Afterawhileitssortofpointlesstooptimize.ItssortofliketheSATs.Gettinga600or
somethingisprettygood.Whenyouobsessaboutgettingthatperfectscore,youstartskippingon
yoursocialactivitiesanddonothingbutsqueezethoselastfewpoints,whenitdoesntreally
matterinthelongrun.TheresagreatobservationcalledGoodhartsLawthatbasicallysaysany
metricbecomesuselessonceyoustartusingitforcontrolpurposes.SotheSAT,forexample,is
agoodgeneraltestofacademicaptitude.Butsinceitsusedsomuchforadmissiontocollege,
kidsaretrainedandcoached.Theyspendlotsoftimeandeffort,specificallytoimprovetheir
SATscoreattheexpenseofawellroundededucation,tothepointwhere[theSAT]maynotbe
suchagoodguidetogeneralacademicexcellence,eventhoughitusedtobebeforestudents
startedoptimizing.

Q:Doyoufeellikejustanyonewithenoughhardworkanddedicationcanreachthelevel
ofmathematicsthatyouhave,ordoyouthinkitrequiresacertainmentaldispositionthat
you'rebornwithinordertodothetypeofmathsdoneattheIMOoringraduatestudies?

A:Itdependsonwhatyourgoalis.Ifyourgoalistobegood,asopposedtoobsessedwith
gettingaperfectscoreorbeingattheabsolutetop,orjustdoingdecently.Ifyouhavethe
enthusiasm,youalsohavetospendalotoftime.Ithinkoneofthethingsyouhavetodoisyou
havetoplaywiththesubject.WhenIwasakid,Ijustloveddoingmathonmyown,Iwouldtry
tosolveequationsitwasahobby.Iwouldtrytofindthesumofthefirstncubesbymyself.
Itsnotaveryseriouslevelofmathematics,butitsonlybytinkeringwithasubjectthatyou
reallygetgoodatit.Sameasanything,likebuildingthings.Youneedacertainbaseline
intelligenceandbeabletothinkandwrite,butIthinkitismostlyactuallyyourenthusiasmand
yourtimeputingiventheopportunity.

Q:WhathasbeenyouropiniononthePolymathprojectsthatyou'vebeeninvolvedin,and
doyouthinksimilarkindsofsemimassivelycollaborativemathematicshasafuture?

A:Ithinkwellseemoreofthem.Foralongtimetheyregoingtobeaniche.Therearecertain
typesofproblemsthattheyareverywellsuitedfor:problemswhichareverymodular,thatcan
besplitupintodifferentpiecesthatasetofpeoplecanworkon.Youneedagoodleaderwho
canorganizeeverything.Thereneedstobesomeclearmeasureofprogressbymembersofyour
group.Ithastobeaccessibleenoughandinterestingenoughtogetpeopleinvolved.Theresa
criticalmass,though.Therearesomeprojectswhereonlyabout3peoplegetinvolvedanditgets
convertedintonormal,traditionalcollaboration.Thereareprojectswhereyouexpecttheanswer
tocomefromalotoflittleideasratherthanafewreallybigideas.ButIdontthinkwellever
solvetheRiemannhypothesisbythissortofcrowdsourcingthing,likeletsget1000people
together,throwideasaroundandseewhatsticks.Thatsnothowtheseproblemsaregoingtobe
solved.

Q:WhatisyouropiniononstrongAI?

A:ThefunnythingaboutAIisthatitsamovingtarget.Intheseventies,someonemightask
whatarethegoalsofAI?Andyoumightsay,Oh,wewantacomputerwhocanbeatachess
master,orwhocanunderstandactuallanguagespeech,orwhocansearchawholedatabasevery
quickly.Wedoallthatnow,likefacerecognition.AllthesethingsthatwethoughtwereAI,we
candothem.Butonceyoudothem,youdontthinkofthemasAI.Ithasthisconnotationof
somemysteriousmagicalcomponenttoit,butwhenyouactuallysolveoneoftheseproblems,
youdontsolveitusingmagic,yousolveitusingclevermathematics.Itsnolongermagical.It
becomesscience,andthenyoudontthinkofitasAIanymore.Itsamazinghowyoucanspeak
intoyourphoneandaskforthenearestThairestaurant,anditwillfindit.Thiswouldhavebeen
calledAI,butwedontthinkaboutitlikethatanymore.SoIthink,almostbydefinition,wewill
neverhaveAIbecausewellneverachievethegoalsofAIorceasetobecaughtupwithit.

Q:WouldyouconsiderdoinganAMAonreddit?

A:(Hesfamiliarwithredditandwilllookintoit.Fingerscrossed!)