William Douglas-Home Oral History Interview 10/28/1966

Administrative Information


Creator: William Douglas-Home
Interviewer: Joseph E. OConnor
Date of Interview: October 28, 1966
Place of Interview: London, England
Length: 22 pages

Biographical Note
Douglas-Home, playwright and Kennedy associate of the United Kingdom, discusses
meeting John F. Kennedy (JFK), meeting Sir Winston Churchill, and JFK and Robert F.
Kennedys relationship, among other issues.

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Transcript of Oral History Interview
These electronic documents were created from transcripts available in the research room
of the John F. Kennedy Library. The transcripts were scanned using optical character
recognition and the resulting text files were proofread against the original transcripts.
Some formatting changes were made. Page numbers are noted where they would have
occurred at the bottoms of the pages of the original transcripts. If researchers have any
concerns about accuracy, they are encouraged to visit the Library and consult the
transcripts and the interview recordings.


Suggested Citation
William Douglas-Home, recorded interview by Joseph E. OConnor, October 28, 1966,
(page number), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program.

William Douglas-Home

Table of Contents


1, 9
2
6
10
12
16
17
19
21
21
































Meeting John F. Kennedy (JFK)
JFKs personality
Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr. and John F. Kennedy
Presidential aspirations
JFKs negotiation tactics
Meeting Sir Winston Churchill
Jacqueline and John Kennedys marriage
Kennedy girls
JFKs Assassination
JFK and Robert F. Kennedy


Oral History Interview

With

William Douglas-Home

October 28, 1966
London, England

By Joseph E. OConnor

For the John F. Kennedy Library



OCONNOR: If you would begin, sir, by telling us where you got to know John
Kennedy, how you got to know him?

HOME: I met him when his father was Ambassador here in Princes Gate. I was a
friend of his sister, Kick [Kathleen Kennedy], and I got to know him when
he was here on his vacations from where Harvard wasnt it? We used to
play golf together. He was age 21, very young, and very

[-1-]

interested in everything. I mean not only politics, but the thing that struck you about him
was that he was so vital about everything.

OCONNOR: What did he like best, what did he like to do?

HOME: When he was here, I think he liked to play golf, and he liked to meet
anybody he saw from any political party and discuss politics with people
and ask them their views. And he also used to go to the London School of
Economics, didnt he, under Harold Laski.

OCONNOR: Harold Laski, for a short time, yes.

HOME: The first time I ever played golf with him we went to Royal Wimbledon
Golf Club, and we asked for a couple of golf balls each. The assistant
professional said we could take a box each. And he gave

[-2-]

us a dozen deluxe golf balls each in a box, and we were rather surprised. And when we
came back, there was an ambulance waiting outside the club house to take the man away
because hed been giving everything away that morning. I had thought he might have
been rather lucky after that. [Laughter]
Then I didnt see him again until after the war. Id been in trouble in the way, and
I had been put in prison for being against an unconditional surrender and all that kind
thing. When he came over in 1945 to stay with his sister, we used to have lunch together
and discuss politics again. He had a very broad minded approach to everything. I mean,
he saw everybodys point of view. Although he had a strong one himself,

[-3-]

he was able to see everybody elses. And then I didnt see him much until my wife and I
went to America when The Reluctant Debutante was on there. We went and stayed on
Rhode Island where he stayed with his father-in-law. He was getting heavily involved in
politics then, and he used to be on the telephone until two in the morning, you know,
talking to somebody in Los Angeles. You could hear it going on.
Again, I saw how interested he was in everything and the way he used to question
everybody. The first time we met him that year, in 56 it was, after not having seen him
for a few years, he came into the St. Regis Hotel where I was sitting with my wife and
Wilfred Hyde-White, the actor, on the night of

[-4-]

our first night just before it started. Hyde-White was in a very highly nervous state as all
actors are. And I said, You know Jack Kennedy. This is Wilfred Hyde-White, my
leading actor. And he said, Is he up to it? That reduced Mr. Hyde-White to a pulp
from that point on, and then when he came on stage that night, he found him sitting in the
second row watching him. Everything went well. But that was the way he talked to
people, so vital the whole time.

OCONNOR: Did you find him a very serious man when you first knew him?

HOME: Not at all.

OCONNOR: Even when he was younger, I wondered if he was serious about his
politics?

HOME: Well, he was interested, always interested. He didnt have a deep political
discussion without jokes at the same time. He had

[-5-]

a very highly developed sense of humor. Joe [Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr.] was
probably more serious than he was.

OCONNOR: I was just going to say you must have known his brother Joe.

HOME: He was a more serious type.

OCONNOR: Theres some question about what relationship there was between John
Kennedy and Joe. Some people

HOME: Well, I couldnt tell that really. I only used to meet them, you know, if you
went out to dinner at the Embassy, they were both there. I never saw them
together much. But they were very friendly. What do some people think?

OCONNOR: Well, in effect, that John Kennedy was rather dominated and completely
overshadowed by his older brother.

HOME: No, I wouldnt say that. No, I wouldnt have

[-6-]

thought that was at all likely.

OCONNOR: For example, many people have commented thatand I think Arthur
Schlesinger has commented this, or at least referred to this, in his
biography of Kennedy that John would never have become president or
never really gone into the field of politics if Joe had continued to live because Joe was the
man who was marked for politics.

HOME: Well, he might have been marked for president, but there was room for
them both, wasnt there, in politics. I mean you always read that father
said that Joe is going to be president, didnt he? But whether thats so, I
dont know. But he was right in the political world from the start, if only from the fact
that his father was Ambassador. I mean, he met all the English politicians of

[-7-]

that time. And he wrote his book, didnt he, Why England Slept.

OCONNOR: Well, when did you see him after that? By the way, did he ever talk about
his war experiences at all to you? You saw him, not during the War, but
after the War.

HOME: Not really.

OCONNOR: Because he really had some extraordinary experiences in the Second
World War.

HOME: Yes. I read about the, you know, the boat being cut in half, and he always
had trouble with his back and all that. He didnt talk about it much. When
I saw him next My wife and I stayed with him in the South of France
just after hed been beaten by, who was it, Senator Kefauver [Estes Kefauver], wasnt it,
for the vice presidency.

[-8-]

OCONNOR: Vice Presidency in 56.

HOME: And we had his brother-in-law over, Mike Canfield [Michael T. Canfield].
Have you interviewed him?

OCONNOR: No, I have not.

HOME: Hes a publisher. Hes over here now. I mean, he lives here. And Jack
used to talk about politics there a lot. And I used to talk about plays. And
he always used to say, Lets get it straight. What are we talking about
now, my politics or your plays? We both talked about each, so it was quite friendly.

OCONNOR: Was he very interested in your plays? Was he very interested in the
theaters?

HOME: He used to read them and all that, and attend the first nightwell, that was
the only one that he could attend

[-9-]

because it was the only one that was in New York. He was interested in
everything, that was the thing I mean, in what everybody did.
And then Mr. Stevenson [Adlai E. Stevenson] came to the South of France and
was staying somewhere, and there was a lot of talk as to whether he shouldnt ring
Stevenson up and say, Should I come to tea with you? or whether Stevenson would
ring him up. That kind of thing. He was getting right into the presidential intrigue at that
point.

OCONNOR: When he was talking about whether he should ring up Stevenson, was the
question ever decided?

HOME: I think Stevenson rang him, and everything worked out all right. Mike
Canfield said to him, once, on Eden Rock, I

[-10-]

remember, Why is it you want to be president? He said, I guess its
about the only thing I can do. Its rather an accurate statement. It may not be the only
thing, but he did it well. There was an actor called David Torbinson there, I remember,
and he swam out to that raft you know, on Eden Rock and Kennedy was lying in the
sun there. He talked to him about the stage for about an hour and a half. He didnt realize
that he was with a potential president. He seemed to be pretty certain he would be by
then.

OCONNOR: John Kennedy did?

HOME: What year was it, about 1959?

OCONNOR: Well, 56 is the year he was defeated for the vice presidency.

HOME: Right, it must have been 58. The last

[-11-]

time I met him was when he came over after hed been to see Mr.
Khrushchev [Nikita S. Khrushchev], and there was a cocktail party at his
sister-in-laws house, you know, Princess Radziwill [Caroline Lee Bouvier Radziwill].
And I remember he said he was very nervous with Khrushchev because he was so rough
at the first meeting. And he repeated what he had often said to me, on previous occasions
about Pitt [William, the Younger Pitt] and Fox [Charles James Fox] that you must be as
strong as Pitt and a negotiating type like Fox at the same time, which is always a
problem. But he did manage to achieve it himself.

OCONNOR: Yes, he did, quite well. What do you think were his strongest
characteristics? Youve talked about his curiosity, for example. What view
do you feel he had

[-12-]

toward religion? He was a Roman Catholic, of course.

HOME: I remember he was saying good-bye to Lord Harlechs [William George
Arthur Ormsby-Gore] wife at the door at this cocktail party and she said,
I dont know whether to kiss you or say good-bye, Mr. President. And
he said, Youre a good Catholic, Cissy, you can kiss my ring. There were about eight
journalists standing around and it made me laugh. I never discussed religion with him
really at all.
But he did have a great breadth of vision. He read an awful lot. He knew all about
the history of England and as Ive said, was a great admirer of both Pitt and Fox. And Sir
Winston [Winston Churchill] of course, he admired immensely, although, my own theory
about Sir Winston was that

[-13-]

he was very much Mr. Pitt and not a great deal Mr. Fox! Of course, the perfect example
of Kennedys Pitt-Fox approach was his dealing with the Cuban Crisis.

OCONNOR: Certainly.

HOME: Whereas, Sir Winston you might think of having a good fight with
somebody and then being magnanimous afterwards. But Kennedy went
one stage further, and he was prepared to be magnanimous without having
the fight, which was a great advance in politics. Nobody could really go back after what
he did in Cuba.

OCONNOR: No, I dont think so.

HOME: I mean all these things in America like, you know, these Senate
committees with Senator Fulbright [J. William Fulbright] and all this
discussion about the Vietnam War you could never have had it before
Kennedy,

[-14-]

I wouldnt have thought.

OCONNOR: Well, you would have had something like it. Kennedy, I think has made, I
mean Kennedy has made a partial opening up of

HOME: Hes made it possible to discuss international politics without a man whos
going against the official line being branded as unpatriotic, hasnt he?
Hes opened up the discussion of international politics. Johnsons [Lyndon
B. Johnson] policy in Vietnam about being tough and conciliatory at the same time
comes directly from him.

OCONNOR: I just dont believe that President Johnsons means exactly what he says it
does.

HOME: I dont know about that, but that new approach in foreign politics you get
from

[-15-]

the English politicians too. They all say we must be strong and we must
also conciliatory at the same time. They used to say, Were going to be strong, or
Were going to be conciliatory. Either of which is a mistake. But that was the last time
I saw him, at that cocktail party.

OCONNOR: You did see him, though, he and Jacqueline [Jacqueline Bouvier
Kennedy], I guess, came to be in Cannes when you were there. Do you
remember anything about that? I remember in Schlesingers book

HOME: That was when we stayed with him in the South of France. We stayed for
a fortnight with him and Jackie. And that was when he was planning his
next approach.

OCONNOR: That was also when he met Sir Winston Churchill, wasnt it?

[-16-]

HOME: Yes, we went down to Mr. Onassis [Aristotle Onassis] yacht one evening,
and Sir Winston wasnt recognizing people that evening much. And as we
left, Mrs. Kennedy said, I think he thought you were the waiter, Jack.
Thats about as far as it went. He was his hero, and it was rather sad to think that that was
the first time hed ever met him.

OCONNOR: Did you know Jacqueline Kennedy very well at all?

HOME: Well, I knew her form meeting her in America when we were out there
and also in the South of France that time. I have seen her since; shes been
over here once or twice.

OCONNOR: Theres been a lot of talk about whether or not their marriage was a very
happy

[-17-]

marriage; whether it was slated for the rocks long before John Kennedy
became President or not.

HOME: No, I wouldnt have thought it was. They got on very well together here.

OCONNOR: Well, after he became President, it seems that was so. I wondered what
sort of relationship they had before he became President.

HOME: They always seemed to get on all right, even before. But, be that as it may,
his sense of humor was the thing that got me. I mean he had a terrific
sense of humor.

OCONNOR: Do you remember any incidents?

HOME: No political pomposity about him at all.

OCONNOR: Thats true.

HOME: I dont remember anything specific but

[-18-]


his general approach was well, he looked at the human angle about
politics. I remember him saying he had seen Stevenson at a Turkish bath
in New York or something, and he didnt think that he would be much of a rival
to him!

OCONNOR: That was before, obviously, he became president.

HOME: That was when we were in the South of France at Cannes. And he had
terrific charm that was absolutely a hundred per cent charm. Anybody who
met him, male or female, whoever they were Which all the family had
and have really. I mean all his sister had, too.

OCONNOR: You knew his sister Kathleen, you said, fairly well?

HOME: Yes. She had tremendous charm, as well as being very, very lively.

[-19-]

OCONNOR: Were you very close to her during the period when she became married
and shortly thereafter her husband

HOME: Well, she got married in the War. I saw her before and after the War. But I
didnt actually see her in the War much. And Eunice [Eunice Kennedy
Shriver] is a very lively girl. She went up to Mr. Nehru once in
Washington at a party when he was being difficult, you know, and everybody had to be
nice to him, and she said, So thats what you look like, you old rascal, you. And he was
delighted by it. Nobody else but a Kennedy would have spoken to him like that.
[Laughter]

OCONNOR: No, I think the Kennedys did get away with that sort of thing and not very
many people would be able to.

[-20-]

HOME: But how many times could he have been president? He could have done
his next term, too, couldnt he?

OCONNOR: Well, he could have had a second term, but that would have been the end.

HOME: Then he would have been 53

OCONNOR: Yes, he was, what, 46 when he died, I guess.

HOME: He would have been about 53, yes.

OCONNOR: So, he would have had about six more years to go 52. Do you recall
where you were when you heard about his death?

HOME: Yes, I was at home. My wifes aunt arrived from the station for the
weekend and said hed been shot. That was the first we knew.

OCONNOR: Did you get to know Robert Kennedy very well?

HOME: I do know him, but not as well as I knew

[-21-]

the other one. I missed him last time he was here. I saw his wife, but I
didnt see him.

OCONNOR: I was wondering what you think about the two, or the relationship between
the two of them. What is different about one compared to the other?

HOME: Well, I should think Bobby is much I shouldnt think hes quite got the
humor that his brother had. He might have, I dont know. I mean, hes
been at bit harassed, hasnt he, in the last few years. I cant really tell.
Hes a very efficient organizer. He organized his brothers campaigns always, didnt he?
But hes got the same charm, hasnt he, when you hear him speaking. I mean, when
youre talking to him or when you see him on television.

OCONNOR: Yes, hes got a good deal of charm, theres no doubt about that.


[END OF INTERVIEW]

[-22-]

William Douglas Home Oral History Transcript
Name List


C

Canfield, Michael T., 9-10
Churchill, Winston, 13-14, 17

F

Fox. Charles James, 12-14
Fulbright, J. William, 14


G

Ghandi, Indira (Nehru), 20

H

Hyde-White, Wilfred, 4-5

J

Johnson, Lyndon B., 15

K

Kefauver, Estes, 8
Kennedy, Jacqueline Bouvier, 16, 17
Kennedy, John F., 1-22
Kennedy, Joseph P., Jr., 6
Kennedy, Kathleen, 1, 19-20
Kennedy, Robert F., 21
Khrushchev, Nikita S., 12














L

Laski, Harold, 2

O

Onassis, Aristotle, 17

P

Pitt, William The Younger. 12-14

S

Schlesinger, Arthur M., Jr., 7
Shriver, Eunice Kennedy, 20
Stevenson, Adlai E., 10

T

Torbinson, David, 11