Wisdom Sayings – On Discipline
Recall that the first stated aim of Proverbs is to learn wisdom and discipline. We
focused on wisdom in our first session; this week we’ll focus on a variety of aspects of
discipline.
I. Re-cap and Introduction
A. Let’s begin with this question: why is the value of wisdom limited unless it’s
accompanied by discipline?
(We can have the right ideas. We can have the right approach and be committed to it.
Indeed we can begin to act in the right ways, with good deeds (which is the proper end
of wisdom). But, isn’t it so that we will not likely remain in the regular pattern of doing
good deeds, unless we have and continue to exhibit the self-discipline that keeps us on
the right track?)
B. We’ll sample some of the ancient wisdom on the nature and importance of such
discipline. But, before we do, do you have ideas of what it may consist of? Can you cite
specific illustrations of how discipline plays out to good effect in life?
(Discussion)
II. Sayings and Proverbs to Study and Discuss
A. “Late morning sleep, midday wine, children’s chatter, and sitting in the assemblies of
the unlearned remove a person from the world.” Rabbi Dosa ben Harkinas
I get why these behaviors might be unproductive. But, how do these things “remove a
person from the world?”
(Discussion)
B. “Who is strong? He who subdues his personal inclination, as it is said: ‘He who is
slow to anger is better than a strong man, and a master of his passions is better than a
conqueror of a city.’ Who is rich? He who is happy with his lot, as it is said: ‘When you
eat of the labor of your hands, you are praiseworthy and all is well with you...’” Pirke
Avot 4:1
What are your thoughts and reactions to each of these two related pieces of wisdom?
What’s the value of each? What are the difficulties of disciplining ourselves to it? The
costs? The benefits?
(Discussion)
C. “A bashful person cannot learn, and a short tempered person cannot teach.” Pirke
Avot 2:5
I don’t think this viewpoint is intended to be critical of people who are shy or don’t speak
much per se. That conceded, what’s the takeaway wisdom?
(If a person doesn’t ask questions and go deeper into what’s presented with some
energy and effort, even boldness in exploring, asking questions, debating and
contesting, deeper learning will not take place or be retained as significantly as would
be desirable.)
D. “Let your behavior in private be the same as your behavior in public.” Rabbi Judah
the Prince
Why are we tempted to think that there’s a lower bar for private behavior? Is there an
argument that there should be? Argument against?
(If we believe in God, we think that God, our Ultimate Guide and Source of
Accountability, is watching, whether our behavior is public or private. Further, it’s
extremely difficult to wall off public from private. Sometimes those actions that seem
private end up public, despite our intentions. It’s increasingly hard in the modern world,
to be sure, to lead two lives. Finally, isn’t it so that if our character is such that we would
do something bad in private that we are so constituted that such behavior will be shown
in public at some time or another?)
E. In Pirke Avot, several things are said to be harmful in abundance but beneficial in
moderation. They include wine, labor, sleep, wealth, conjugal relations, and the “way of
the world.”
1. Do you have reactions to any or all of these?
(Discussion)
2. What is meant by the caution as to “the way of the world?”
(It could mean to avoid too much involvement in the physical or material things of life.
The sages tend to seek a balance. We should live in the world and experience its
riches, its fruit. These are blessings. But when our attachment grows too strong - when
we do too much – it robs our lives of the essential place of the spirit. We must discipline
ourselves in all such ways to avoid the harm of too much.)
F. “Even if you curse a dog’s tail, it will continue to wag.” Rav Yosef
What wisdom do we garner here?
(We’re tempted to think we have the power to make the world respond to our every
wish, desire, and direction. This is false and misleading. While it’s good to aspire and
seek to better and change the world, a line must be drawn. When our minds tell us
clearly that we have no capacity to have an impact and yet we fail to discipline our
appetite to control - we waste time in pursuits that lead nowhere, and we may hurt
ourselves or others by doing so.)
G. “Let a quarrel stand over night, and it will disappear by itself.” “If no grain is in the
house, quarrels knock at the door and enter.” Rav Papa.
Also, read Proverbs 17:14: “Starting strife is like releasing water, so before a quarrel
breaks out, leave off.”
1.What is the basis for concern about quarrels?
(Quarrels can lead to anger, disputes, and then strife.)
2. How do these wisdom statements help us discipline ourselves to avoid quarrels and
the aftermath of strife?
(We should be patient and disallow emotions to play out in a way that fosters quarrels.
We should avoid circumstances, such as domestic problems, that are known to lead to
quarrels. And we should recognize that avoiding quarrels is instrumental in avoiding
strife.)
H. “Anyone who acts in the midst of anger is likely to destroy his house.” Rav Papa.
We all get angry. But when does anger lead to harm?
(Discussion)
I.“ He who takes vengeance destroys his own house.” Rav Papa
How so?
(When we feel we’ve been wronged, we’re tempted to seek vengeance. This goes
beyond our seeking justice, which would be warranted. Instead, we want to go further,
to hurt the person we feel wronged us. So, we get angry. We turn our spirit and
resources over to getting our revenge. This generally has the effect of taking us away
from the work and deeds we should attend to. In doing so, it leaves us prone to being
careless or even destructive in our work or in our lives generally, away, or, as here, “in
our house.”
We may commit wrongs or even illegal acts in effecting our revenge. This could hurt our
loved ones and us even more. We may face legal liability that causes a loss of
resources or freedom that will most certainly be felt “in our house.”)
J. From Tractate Pesahim in the Talmud: “God acclaims three things everyday - 1) a
bachelor who lives in a city without sinning, 2) a poor man who returns lost property,
and 3) a rich man who pays his taxes without grumbling.”
Explain in each of these three cases why such shows of self-discipline are pleasing to
God? By what rules of behavior are they guides?
(God loves those who do not bend to bad temptations that are alluring and appealing to
people in their own particular circumstances. If people can resist wrongfully seeking
self-advantage when they could likely get away with it, they’ll likely stay right all the
time. And others who see them resist will do so as well.
Further, people in these circumstances may very well think they have the best excuses
to act in their own interest. “Others made me do it.” “I was justified in doing it.” “My
circumstances warranted my doing it.” “Too much of the burden is being put on me.
Back off and understand.” Yet, when those who are disciplined resist, it is very good for
them, and it is highly beneficial to the interests of the community.)
K. “In a well from which you have drunk water, do not throw clods.” Raba, in Tractate
Baba Kama, in the Talmud.
What’s the wisdom here?
(We tend to take the sources of our vitality for granted. This may be the nation from
which been given so much. It may be our family. It may be our neighborhood, or church,
or synagogue, or our environment. More fundamentally, it may be our traditions, our
values, and our lives.
We become lazy, inattentive, angry, and/or disrespectful. And we dirty up these very
resources when we use them as dumping grounds, out of negative emotion, negligence,
hostility, or misplaced righteousness. This wisdom is teaching us this is wrong. We
should avoid this sort of despoliation of what we should respect for its own worth as well
as our self-preservation.)
L. “He who inherits much money and wishes to lose it should wear linen garments, use
glassware, and hire workers without supervising them.” R. Yohanan, in Tractate Baba
Mezi’a, in the Talmud.
After we consider what this means in both ancient and modern times, let’s ask and
answer this question: what specific discipline is being taught in each of these three
circumstances?
(Discussion)
M. “When you have friends, some of whom rebuke you for your behavior and some of
whom praise you, love the one who rebukes you and dislike the one who praises you.”
Shimon ben Elezar.
Also, read Proverbs 12:1: “Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, while whoever
hates reproof is unthinking.”
What’s the importance of welcoming constructive reproof and correction in order to be
wise and live in right ways?
(It takes a certain kind of discipline to understand that having friends who praise us may
not be what we should want or need. It feels good when they flatter us, for sure. This
wisdom teaches, though, that when true friends care enough to rebuke us when we
need it, we should welcome it and prize them. This gives us the best (and often earliest)
means of making corrections, along with the right support and motivation to change.
A friend who praises us when we need correction actually may slow down the correction
process by giving us false signals that suggest that we’re fine when we’re actually not.)
III. Conclusion – as we reflect on this assortment of wisdom sayings regarding
discipline, how do we knit them together into a solid understanding? What are your
principal takeaways?

Wisdom Sayings- Lesson Two Game Plan

  • 1.
    Wisdom Sayings –On Discipline Recall that the first stated aim of Proverbs is to learn wisdom and discipline. We focused on wisdom in our first session; this week we’ll focus on a variety of aspects of discipline. I. Re-cap and Introduction A. Let’s begin with this question: why is the value of wisdom limited unless it’s accompanied by discipline? (We can have the right ideas. We can have the right approach and be committed to it. Indeed we can begin to act in the right ways, with good deeds (which is the proper end of wisdom). But, isn’t it so that we will not likely remain in the regular pattern of doing good deeds, unless we have and continue to exhibit the self-discipline that keeps us on the right track?) B. We’ll sample some of the ancient wisdom on the nature and importance of such discipline. But, before we do, do you have ideas of what it may consist of? Can you cite specific illustrations of how discipline plays out to good effect in life? (Discussion) II. Sayings and Proverbs to Study and Discuss
  • 2.
    A. “Late morningsleep, midday wine, children’s chatter, and sitting in the assemblies of the unlearned remove a person from the world.” Rabbi Dosa ben Harkinas I get why these behaviors might be unproductive. But, how do these things “remove a person from the world?” (Discussion) B. “Who is strong? He who subdues his personal inclination, as it is said: ‘He who is slow to anger is better than a strong man, and a master of his passions is better than a conqueror of a city.’ Who is rich? He who is happy with his lot, as it is said: ‘When you eat of the labor of your hands, you are praiseworthy and all is well with you...’” Pirke Avot 4:1 What are your thoughts and reactions to each of these two related pieces of wisdom? What’s the value of each? What are the difficulties of disciplining ourselves to it? The costs? The benefits? (Discussion) C. “A bashful person cannot learn, and a short tempered person cannot teach.” Pirke Avot 2:5
  • 3.
    I don’t thinkthis viewpoint is intended to be critical of people who are shy or don’t speak much per se. That conceded, what’s the takeaway wisdom? (If a person doesn’t ask questions and go deeper into what’s presented with some energy and effort, even boldness in exploring, asking questions, debating and contesting, deeper learning will not take place or be retained as significantly as would be desirable.) D. “Let your behavior in private be the same as your behavior in public.” Rabbi Judah the Prince Why are we tempted to think that there’s a lower bar for private behavior? Is there an argument that there should be? Argument against? (If we believe in God, we think that God, our Ultimate Guide and Source of Accountability, is watching, whether our behavior is public or private. Further, it’s extremely difficult to wall off public from private. Sometimes those actions that seem private end up public, despite our intentions. It’s increasingly hard in the modern world, to be sure, to lead two lives. Finally, isn’t it so that if our character is such that we would do something bad in private that we are so constituted that such behavior will be shown in public at some time or another?)
  • 4.
    E. In PirkeAvot, several things are said to be harmful in abundance but beneficial in moderation. They include wine, labor, sleep, wealth, conjugal relations, and the “way of the world.” 1. Do you have reactions to any or all of these? (Discussion) 2. What is meant by the caution as to “the way of the world?” (It could mean to avoid too much involvement in the physical or material things of life. The sages tend to seek a balance. We should live in the world and experience its riches, its fruit. These are blessings. But when our attachment grows too strong - when we do too much – it robs our lives of the essential place of the spirit. We must discipline ourselves in all such ways to avoid the harm of too much.) F. “Even if you curse a dog’s tail, it will continue to wag.” Rav Yosef What wisdom do we garner here? (We’re tempted to think we have the power to make the world respond to our every wish, desire, and direction. This is false and misleading. While it’s good to aspire and seek to better and change the world, a line must be drawn. When our minds tell us clearly that we have no capacity to have an impact and yet we fail to discipline our appetite to control - we waste time in pursuits that lead nowhere, and we may hurt ourselves or others by doing so.)
  • 5.
    G. “Let aquarrel stand over night, and it will disappear by itself.” “If no grain is in the house, quarrels knock at the door and enter.” Rav Papa. Also, read Proverbs 17:14: “Starting strife is like releasing water, so before a quarrel breaks out, leave off.” 1.What is the basis for concern about quarrels? (Quarrels can lead to anger, disputes, and then strife.) 2. How do these wisdom statements help us discipline ourselves to avoid quarrels and the aftermath of strife? (We should be patient and disallow emotions to play out in a way that fosters quarrels. We should avoid circumstances, such as domestic problems, that are known to lead to quarrels. And we should recognize that avoiding quarrels is instrumental in avoiding strife.) H. “Anyone who acts in the midst of anger is likely to destroy his house.” Rav Papa. We all get angry. But when does anger lead to harm? (Discussion)
  • 6.
    I.“ He whotakes vengeance destroys his own house.” Rav Papa How so? (When we feel we’ve been wronged, we’re tempted to seek vengeance. This goes beyond our seeking justice, which would be warranted. Instead, we want to go further, to hurt the person we feel wronged us. So, we get angry. We turn our spirit and resources over to getting our revenge. This generally has the effect of taking us away from the work and deeds we should attend to. In doing so, it leaves us prone to being careless or even destructive in our work or in our lives generally, away, or, as here, “in our house.” We may commit wrongs or even illegal acts in effecting our revenge. This could hurt our loved ones and us even more. We may face legal liability that causes a loss of resources or freedom that will most certainly be felt “in our house.”) J. From Tractate Pesahim in the Talmud: “God acclaims three things everyday - 1) a bachelor who lives in a city without sinning, 2) a poor man who returns lost property, and 3) a rich man who pays his taxes without grumbling.” Explain in each of these three cases why such shows of self-discipline are pleasing to God? By what rules of behavior are they guides? (God loves those who do not bend to bad temptations that are alluring and appealing to people in their own particular circumstances. If people can resist wrongfully seeking
  • 7.
    self-advantage when theycould likely get away with it, they’ll likely stay right all the time. And others who see them resist will do so as well. Further, people in these circumstances may very well think they have the best excuses to act in their own interest. “Others made me do it.” “I was justified in doing it.” “My circumstances warranted my doing it.” “Too much of the burden is being put on me. Back off and understand.” Yet, when those who are disciplined resist, it is very good for them, and it is highly beneficial to the interests of the community.) K. “In a well from which you have drunk water, do not throw clods.” Raba, in Tractate Baba Kama, in the Talmud. What’s the wisdom here? (We tend to take the sources of our vitality for granted. This may be the nation from which been given so much. It may be our family. It may be our neighborhood, or church, or synagogue, or our environment. More fundamentally, it may be our traditions, our values, and our lives. We become lazy, inattentive, angry, and/or disrespectful. And we dirty up these very resources when we use them as dumping grounds, out of negative emotion, negligence, hostility, or misplaced righteousness. This wisdom is teaching us this is wrong. We should avoid this sort of despoliation of what we should respect for its own worth as well as our self-preservation.)
  • 8.
    L. “He whoinherits much money and wishes to lose it should wear linen garments, use glassware, and hire workers without supervising them.” R. Yohanan, in Tractate Baba Mezi’a, in the Talmud. After we consider what this means in both ancient and modern times, let’s ask and answer this question: what specific discipline is being taught in each of these three circumstances? (Discussion) M. “When you have friends, some of whom rebuke you for your behavior and some of whom praise you, love the one who rebukes you and dislike the one who praises you.” Shimon ben Elezar. Also, read Proverbs 12:1: “Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, while whoever hates reproof is unthinking.” What’s the importance of welcoming constructive reproof and correction in order to be wise and live in right ways? (It takes a certain kind of discipline to understand that having friends who praise us may not be what we should want or need. It feels good when they flatter us, for sure. This wisdom teaches, though, that when true friends care enough to rebuke us when we need it, we should welcome it and prize them. This gives us the best (and often earliest) means of making corrections, along with the right support and motivation to change.
  • 9.
    A friend whopraises us when we need correction actually may slow down the correction process by giving us false signals that suggest that we’re fine when we’re actually not.) III. Conclusion – as we reflect on this assortment of wisdom sayings regarding discipline, how do we knit them together into a solid understanding? What are your principal takeaways?