Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.

1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS

Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Q1 2025 Earnings Call

Company Participants
• Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer
• Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Other Participants
• Ken Usdin, Analyst
• Erika Najarian, Analyst
• John McDonald, Analyst
• Matt O'Connor, Analyst
• Steven Chubak, Analyst
• Gerard Cassidy, Analyst
• Ebrahim Poonawala, Analyst
• Jim Mitchell, Analyst
• Betsy Graseck, Analyst
• Mike Mayo, Analyst
• Glenn Schorr, Analyst
• Saul Martinez, Analyst

Presentation
Operator
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to JPMorgan Chase's First Quarter 2025 Earnings Call. This call is
being recorded. Your line will be muted for the duration of the call. We will now go live to the presentation. The
presentation is available on JPMorgan Chase's website. Please refer to the disclaimer in the back concerning
forward-looking statements. Please stand by.
At this time, I would like to turn the call over to JPMorgan Chase's, Chairman and CEO, Jamie Dimon; and the Chief
Financial Officer, Jeremy Barnum. Mr. Barnum, please go ahead.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. Starting on Page 1, the firm reported net income of $14.6 billion, EPS of
$5.07 on revenue of $46 billion with an ROTCE of 21%. These results included a First Republic-related gain of $588
million, which was previously disclosed in the 10-K. On Page 2, we have more on our first quarter results. The firm
reported revenue of $46 billion, up $3.5 billion or 8% year-on-year. NII ex-markets was down $430 million or 2%,
driven by the impact of lower rates and deposit margin compression, as well as lower deposit balances in CCB. This
was predominantly offset by higher card revolving balances, the impact of securities activity, including from prior
quarters as well as higher wholesale deposits.
NIR ex markets was up $2.2 billion or 20% and excluding the significant item I just mentioned, was up 14%, largely on
higher asset management fees, lower net investment securities losses and higher investment banking fees. And markets
revenue was up $1.7 billion or 21%. Expenses of $23.6 billion were up $840 million or 4%, largely driven by

Page 1 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

compensation, including growth in employees across the front office and technology, higher brokerage and distribution
fees, as well as marketing and legal expense. The quarter also reflected $323 million release of the FDIC special
assessment accrual compared with a $725 million increase in the prior quarter. Credit costs were $3.3 billion with net
charge-offs of $2.3 billion and net reserve build of $973 million. We have more details on the reserve build on Page 3.
With this quarter's reserve build, firm's total allowance for credit losses is $27.6 billion. Let's take a second to add a
little bit of context to our thinking surrounding this number in light of the unique environment of the last several weeks.
Our first quarter allowance is anchored on the relatively benign central case economic outlook, which was in effect at
the end of the quarter. But in light of the significantly elevated risks and uncertainties at the time, we increased the
probability weightings associated with the downside scenarios in our CECL framework. As a result, the weighted
average unemployment rate embedded in our allowance is 5.8%, up from 5.5% last quarter, driving the $973 million
increase in the allowance.
So with that in mind, the consumer build of $441 million was driven by changes in the weighted average
macroeconomic outlook. The wholesale build $549 million was predominantly driven by credit quality changes on
certain exposures and net lending activity as well as changes in the outlook. In addition, it's important to note that the
increase in the allowance is not to any meaningful degree, driven by deterioration in the actual credit performance in the
portfolio, which remains largely in line with expectations.
With that, let's go to balance sheet and capital on Page 4. We ended the quarter with a CET1 ratio of 15.4%, down 30
basis points versus the prior quarter as net income and OCI gains were more than offset by capital distributions and
higher RWA. This quarter, the firm distributed $11 billion of capital to shareholders, which reflects $7.1 billion of net
common share repurchases and the payment of our common dividend, which has been increased to $1.40 per share.
This quarter's higher RWA is primarily driven by overall business growth in markets and some seasonal effects.
Now let's go to our businesses, starting with CCB on Page 5. Consumers and small businesses remain financially
healthy. Despite the recent downtrends in consumer and small-business sentiment based on our data, spend, cash
buffers, payment-to-income ratios and credit utilization are all in line with our expectations. Moving to the financial
results, CCB reported net income of $4.4 billion on revenue of $18.3 billion, which was up 4% year-on-year.
In Banking and Wealth Management, revenue was down 1% year-on-year, driven by lower deposit NII, predominantly
offset by growth in Wealth Management revenue. Average deposits were down 2% year-on-year and flat sequentially,
while end-of-period deposits were up 2% quarter-on-quarter. Client investment assets were up 7% year-on-year,
predominantly driven by market performance, as we continue to see strong flows into managed products. In Home
Lending, revenue was up 2% year-on-year and originations were up 42% year-on-year, off a small base and a slowly
growing market.
Turning to Card Services and Auto, revenue was up 12% year-on-year, predominantly driven by card NII and higher
revolving balances as well as higher operating lease income in auto. Card outstandings were up 10% due to strong
account acquisition. And in auto, originations were $10.7 billion, up 20%, driven by higher lease volume. Expenses of
$9.9 billion were up 6% year-on-year, predominantly driven by growth in marketing and technology, higher field
compensation as well as higher auto lease depreciation. Credit costs were $2.6 billion, reflecting net charge-offs of $2.2
billion, up $275 million year-on-year, predominantly driven by the seasoning of recent vintages in card with
delinquencies and losses in line with expectations. The net reserve build was $475 million, of which $400 million was
in card.
Next, the Commercial and Investment Bank on Page 6. CIB reported net income of $6.9 billion on revenue of $19.7
billion, which is up 12% year-on-year. IB fees were up 12% year-on-year, and we ranked number one with wallet share
of 9%. In Advisory, fees were up 16%, benefiting from the closing of deals announced in 2024. Net underwriting fees
were up 16%, primarily driven by elevated refinancing activity, particularly in leveraged finance. In equity
underwriting, fees were down 9% year-on-year, reflecting challenging market conditions.
In light of market conditions, we are adopting a cautious stance on the investment banking outlook, while client
engagement and dialog is quite elevated, both the conversion of the existing pipeline and origination of new activity

Page 2 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

will require a reduction in the current levels of uncertainty. The payment revenue was up 3% year-on-year, excluding
equity investments, driven by higher deposit balances and fee growth, predominantly offset by deposit margin
compression. Lending revenue was up 11% year-on-year, driven by lower losses on hedges, partially offset by lower
balances.
Moving to markets, total revenue was up 21% year-on-year, reflecting record performance in equities. Fixed income
was up 8% with better performance in rates and commodities against a relatively weak prior year quarter. Equities was
up 48% as the business performed well during a period of elevated volatility, supported by higher client activity and
strong monetization of flows, particularly in derivatives. Security Services revenue was up 7% year-on-year, driven by
fee growth and higher deposit balances, partially offset by deposit margin compression.
Expenses of $9.8 billion were up 13% year-on-year, predominantly driven by higher compensation, legal, and
brokerage expense. Average banking and payments loans were down 3% year-on-year and down 1% sequentially as we
continue to observe payoff activity and limited demand for new loans across client segments. Average client deposits
were up 11% year-on-year and up 2% sequentially, reflecting increased activity across payments and security services.
Finally, credit costs were $705 million, largely driven by the net reserve build.
Then to complete our lines of business, Asset and Wealth Management on Page 7. AWM reported net income of $1.6
billion with pre-tax margin of 35%. Revenue of $5.7 billion was up 12% year-on-year, predominantly driven by growth
in management fees on strong net inflows and higher average market levels as well as higher brokerage activity and
higher deposit balances. Expenses of $3.7 billion were up 7% year-on-year, largely driven by higher compensation,
including revenue-related compensation and continued growth in our private banking advisor teams as well as higher
distribution fees.
Long-term net inflows were $54 billion for the quarter, primarily driven by equity and fixed income. In liquidity, we
saw net inflows of $36 billion. AUM of $4.1 trillion and client assets of $6 trillion were both up 15% year-on-year,
driven by continued net inflows and higher market levels. And finally, loans were up 5% year-on-year and flat
quarter-on-quarter, and deposits were up 7% year-on-year and down 2% sequentially.
Turning to corporate on Page 8. Corporate reported net income of $1.7 billion. Revenue of $2.3 billion was up $102
million year-on-year. NII of $1.7 billion was down $826 million year-on-year. NIR was a net gain of $653 million
compared with a net loss of $275 million in the prior year. The current quarter included the significant item I mentioned
upfront, while the prior-year quarter included net securities losses of $336 million. Expenses of $185 million were down
$1.1 billion year-on-year, driven by the changes to the FDIC special assessment accruals I mentioned upfront.
To finish up, let's turn to the full year outlook on Page 9. We continue to expect NII ex-markets to be approximately $90
billion. The firm-wide NII outlook has increased to about $94.5 billion, reflecting an increase in markets NII, which you
should think of as being primarily offset in NIR. Our adjusted expense outlook continues to be about $95 billion. And
on credit, we expect the card net charge-off rate to be in line with our previous guidance of approximately 3.6%.
So to wrap-up, we're pleased with another quarter of strong operating performance. But of course, the focus right now is
on the future, which is obviously unusually uncertain. But no matter what outcomes eventually materialize, we are
eager to do our part to continue to support our clients, the markets and the broader economy, and we believe the banking
system will be a source of strength in this dynamic environment. And with that, let's open the line for Q&A.

Questions And Answers

Operator
Thank you, please stand by. Our first question comes from Ken Usdin with Autonomous. You may proceed.

Ken Usdin, Analyst

Page 3 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Good morning, Jeremy. I'm wondering if you could start by just kind of amplifying just the macro commentary that you
started off on. And given the uncertainty in the world that you referenced, just how are you seeing the activity change
across the customer base from consumers to wholesale? And can you just talk through how that's also just informing
any changes in your -- some of your growth and reserving expectations? Thanks.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Sure, Ken. So, I mean at a high level, I would say that obviously, some of the salient news flow is quite recent. So we've
done some soundings and some checking, both on the consumer side and on the wholesale side. I think on the consumer
side, you know, the thing to check is the spending data. And to be honest, the main thing that we see there what would
appear to be a certain amount of front loading and spending ahead of people expecting price increases from tariffs. So
ironically, that's actually somewhat supportive, all else equal. But I think what it sort of highlights is that during this
transitional period and this elevated uncertainty, you might see some distortions in the data that make it hard to draw
larger conclusions.
In terms of our corporate clients, obviously, they've been reacting to the changes in tariff policy. And at the margin, that
shifts their focus away from more strategic priorities with obvious implications with investment banking, our pipeline
outlook towards more short-term work, optimizing supply chains and trying to figure out how they're going to respond
to the current environment. So as a result, I think we would characterize what we're hearing from our corporate clients
as a little bit of a wait-and-see attitude. I do think you see obvious differences across sectors.
Some sectors are going to be much more exposed than others and have more complicated problems to solve and also
across the size of the clients. I think smaller clients, small business, and smaller corporates are probably a little bit more
challenged. I think the larger corporates have a bit more experience dealing with these things and more resources to
manage. So that's a little bit of our read of the situation right now, but certainly bit of a wait and see attitude. It's hard to
make long-term decisions right now and so we'll see how that plays out.

Ken Usdin, Analyst

Yeah. And just one question on the NII ex-markets holding at $90 billion, can you just walk us through the puts and
takes of just what's the new curve you're using, which also is subject to change every day and what might have been
some of the positive offsets to if you put in more expected cuts than you had before? Thanks.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, that's a good question, Ken. You're right. So if you remember, last quarter, we said that we had one cut in the
curve. I think last curve has something like three cuts. And so we've talked a lot obviously about how we're asset
sensitive. You now see our EaR disclosed in the supplement and probably our empirical EaR is a little bit higher than
our modeled EaR as a result of the relatively low -- lower than modeled rates paid in consumer. So when you put that
together, all else equal, the drop in the weighted-average IORB, which is about 22 basis points, should produce a
notable headwind in our NII ex-markets.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

In the curve basically.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, basically -- that's just mechanics.

Page 4 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

It is guaranteed not to have them.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

As Ken says. So that's mechanically just flowing through the curve. So yeah, your brushing it, but given that, why are
you not revising down? And the answer to that is that, across all the puts and takes, actually our number is a tiny bit
lower. It's just not enough to warrant a change in the outlook, but we do have some offset. So we have some balance
effects that are favorable. You will have noted that I talked about higher wholesale deposit balances, for example. We
see beta outperforming in a couple of different places in CDs and in wholesale. The other thing is that you'll recall, we
talked before about having a placeholder in our NII outlook for the potential impact of the card late fee rule. We've now
removed that. So that's a little bit of an offset as well. So that's kind of how you get unchanged, even though clearly all
else equal, the lower expected front-end rates are a headwind.

Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Erika Najarian with UBS. You may proceed.

Erika Najarian, Analyst

Yes, good morning. This question is for Jamie. Jamie, you were on the media today talking about potential economic
turbulence. But Jeremy also mentioned that banking should be -- the banking system should be a source of strength in
this turbulence. The equity market always seems to think about the banks as weaker players given how they trade the
stocks more on sentiment and fear, rather than the math of the ability of banks to absorb provisions going forward if we
do fall into a slower economic downturn. So I guess just the question here is, can -- you double click on how you think
this is going to impact the economy going forward, and maybe double click on Jeremy's statement that banking -- the
banking system should be a source of strength?

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

I just -- before Jamie answers that, Erika, I just want to make one brief comment, which is the banking system being a
source of strength means what it says. In other words, banks doing their job to support the economy. That's not a
statement about bank equity performance and the extent to which banks are cyclical or not. Like obviously, a
recessionary environment, as I frequently said, all else equal is bad for banks from an equity performance perspective.
We're talking about the financial strength of banks balance sheets and our ability to support our clients in a difficult
moment.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

And everyone trade stocks in a different way, so sentiment. But banks are a cork in the ocean when it comes to the
economy. If the economy gets worse, credit loss will go up, volumes can change, deal growth can change, and we're not
predicting all of that. What I would say is our excellent economist, Michael Flowick, I called this morning specifically
to ask them with -- how they're looking at their forecast today, but they think it's about 50-50 for a recession, so I'll just
refer to that. Obviously, if there's a recession credit loss will go up and other factors will change too. And I think the one
thing I'll add to what Jeremy said is, and I don't usually pay that much attention to anecdotes, but this time I am.

Page 5 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

And I think you're going to see a lot of companies, you guys, not you, but the analyst community has already reduced its
earnings estimates for the S&P by 5%. So now it's up 5% as opposed to up 10%. My guess is be zero and negative 5%
probably the next month. And then you're going to hear a 1,000 companies report and they're going to tell you what
their guidance is and my guess is a lot will remove it. They're going to tell you what they think it might do to their
customers, their base, their earnings, their costs, their tariffs. It's different for every company, but I assume you'll see
that. And anecdotally, a lot of people are not doing things because of this. They're going to wait and see and that's
M&A, and M&A with middle market companies, that's people's hiring plans and stuff like that. So people have to adjust
to this new environment. And I think you will see what it is.
I just also want to point out just to -- so you can round it up, this is to make you feel comfortable, not uncomfortable.
When COVID hit, unemployment went from like 4% to 15% in a couple of months. And we had to add to reserves in a
two-month period of $15 billion. And then to show you how stupid CECL is, in a three-month -- three-quarter period,
we took down the $15 billion. So just that just sizes up a bad recession. If it's a mild recession, it will be less than that. If
it's a really bad recession, it will be more than that. Either way, we can handle it and serve our clients. Earnings, won't
be great and the stocks will go down, which I look at as an opportunity to buy back more stock.

Erika Najarian, Analyst

Got it. And a second follow-up question, and I don't disagree with you guys on equity market performance of bank
stocks, it's just that the mindset of portfolio managers is they always go back to sort of the lowest common denominator
of -- fundamental performance versus thinking about resilience. And so that point, the second question is on the reserve.
Jeremy, you mentioned a weighted average unemployment rate of 5.8%. I think that's above where economists are
thinking we could peak even in a recession scenario. How should we think about any incremental builds from here and
what you're going -- obviously, deterioration in the outlook, but what more do you need to see in terms of how you
make decisions about further builds from here?

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, Erika, it's a good question, but the truth is, there's just a little bit too much uncertainty right now for me to sort of
give an outlook for reserves, which is generally not a thing that we do anyway. As I mentioned in my prepared remarks,
the accident forecast at the end of the quarter was the sort of bog [ph] standard, no landing, barely any increase in
unemployment. Given that we knew at the time that there was -- there were some big pending announcement and there
was quite a bit of elevated uncertainty around that, it felt like the forecast were kind of lagging because people were just
waiting to actually get the information.
And so it felt appropriate to add a little bit of downside skew to our probability assessment, which is what led to the
increase and what led to the bill. We use this weighted average unemployment thing is a useful way to help explain
what's going on inside the reserve, but obviously, the actual mechanisms are quite complex, the depth of any potential
recession, the timing of it, distribution of outcomes, which sectors it hits idiosyncratic stuff in wholesale, there's a lot. I
think on consumer, as Jamie mentioned, it is worth remembering that by far the most important variable is
unemployment. So if the labor market remains very strong, consumer credit will probably be fine. If it doesn't, then
you're going to see it play through the way it always does.

Erika Najarian, Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Page 6 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Thank you. Our next question comes from (multiple speakers). I apologize. Our next question comes from John
McDonald with Truist Securities. You may proceed.

John McDonald, Analyst

Hi, good morning. Jeremy, on that same topic, no change to the full-year credit card net charge-off forecast. How do we
square that with the rising recession risk? Is it because you already have a couple of months of delinquencies kind of
baked into cake, and this is more an issue for next year or just too early to call?

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

We should have not given you that forecast. We don't know what the number is going to be. That's -- I would say it's a
short-term number. And based on what's happening today, there's a wide range of potential outcomes.

John McDonald, Analyst

Yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah, that's that's what we're kind of thinking.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

But mechanically, John, though, as you alluded to, there are some mechanical elements to the way card charge-offs
works, that means that it's pretty big, it's pretty far out of time.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Couple of quarters.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

So sort of echoing Jamie's point, you know, it just doesn't necessarily tell you that much about what might actually
happen through the end of the year. Even if unemployment were to increase significantly, it probably wouldn't flow
through the charge-offs until later.

John McDonald, Analyst

Okay, got it. And then just on capital, how does this type of macro uncertainty impact your thinking around conserving
capital as opposed to deploying it through your investment agenda and buybacks as the stock gets cheaper? Just, are you
still looking to arrest the increase or does this kind of change it?

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

The investment that we do in banks, branches, technology, AI is going to continue regardless of the environment. And
then we have -- the payment happens to Basel III and CCAR and G-SIBs [ph] and all that, $30 billion to $60 billion of
excess capital. And in the Chairman's letter, I wrote about what we think of that. But based upon the environment, the
turbulence issues, I like having excess capital. We are prepared for any environment. And that's how we can serve
clients. That's not for any other reason. So we have plenty of capital and plenty of liquidity to get through whatever the

Page 7 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

stormy seas are.

John McDonald, Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, John.

Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Matt O'Connor with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Matt O'Connor, Analyst

Good morning. I just want to drill down on the credit card spend. Any comments in terms of changing patterns on the
consumer card spend? There's been headlines of travel kind of going down. Just talk about some of the puts and takes in
that up 7% year-over-year?

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, it's a good question. We're seeing that too. So let me talk about travel. I mean, we obviously saw the airlines
discuss what they are seeing as headwinds for them, specifically in airline travel, and we're seeing that too through the
card spend. It's not obvious to us that, that's necessarily an indicator for broader patterns. There are a variety of potential
explanations for the narrow drop in airline spend. And as I mentioned previously, another thing that we are seeing
looking at the April data is what would appear to be a little bit of front-loading of spending, specifically in items that
might be -- have prices go up as a function of tariffs. So you see people behaving rationally. And I have noted even, you
know, you hear anecdotes and I've seen evidence of companies specifically advertising, we have pre-tariff inventory
and so on and so forth. So it's not that surprising that you're seeing that a little bit in the spending data.
The other thing that people are kind of interested in this space is like what's happening by income banks. We have seen
some of the retailers and other folks talking about weaknesses in the lower-income segment. And I think when we look
at our card data and also our cash buffers and people's checking accounts, of course, it is true that it is relatively weaker
in the lower-income segment. But when you take a step back and you ask, are we seeing signs of distress in the
lower-income segment? The answer is no. So sure, the margin cash buffers are lower and you see some rotation of
spend and spending is a little bit weaker than it was in the peak spending moments. But actually some of the increases in
spending that we're seeing in April are actually coming from the lower-income segment. So no evidence of distress, I
would say.

Matt O'Connor, Analyst

Okay. That's helpful color. And then just separately, if we look at the delinquencies for the home lending, they
increased both Q-on-Q and year-over-year. Is that just some of the noise from the First Republic deal as you take the
markets upfront and then those portfolios essentially receding from an accounting point of view or is there something
else going on there?

Page 8 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Sorry, I actually didn't hear which fees?

Matt O'Connor, Analyst

Delinquencies in home lending. I didn't...

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Interesting. I haven't looked at that. We'll have to get back to you on that. I don't think there's anything. Whatever it is, it
wasn't important enough to get raised.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

So it could be the first Republican accounting. Yeah, anything is possible. We'll get back to you on that.

Matt O'Connor, Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Steven Chubak with Wolfe Research. You may proceed.

Steven Chubak, Analyst

Hi, good morning, and thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to start of with one on the proposed SLR changes and
just the impact of rate volatility. The treasury is committed to providing relief to the banks under the SLR just to help
mitigate some of the volatility in the 10-year. But given the geopolitical concerns, weakening global demand for
treasuries, how does it inform your appetite just for purchasing US treasuries, if those reforms are implemented and just
how you're managing rate risk maybe more holistically across the firm just in light of some of the recent volatility?

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

So SLR alone isn't going to change that much for us. It may change for other people. You really need reform across
SLR, G-SIB with CCAR, Basel III and LCR, all of which have deep flaws in them to make a material change. And
remember, it's not relief to the banks. It's relief to the markets. J.P. Morgan will be fine without an SLR change. The
reason to change some of these things is so banks -- the big market makers can intermediate more in the markets. If they
don't -- if they do, spreads will come in, there'll be more active traders. If they don't, the Fed will have to intermediate,
which I think is just a bad policy idea. Every time there's a kerfuffle in the markets, the Fed has to come in and
intermediate. So they should make these changes.
The point -- the reason why is when you have very -- lot of volatile markets and very widespread and low liquidity in
treasuries, it affects all other capital markets. That's the reason to do it, not as a favor to the banks themselves. And
anyway -- and we don't take more interest rate exposure to this in any way, shape or form. So it's not like we're going to
change our position. We intermediate in the markets, help clients do what they have to do. And if they -- if the banks

Page 9 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

could take bigger positions, they would have just larger dealer positions and taking -- basically take not much more
interest rate exposure. I should say that our folks did a fabulous job trading this quarter.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

And Steve, all I would add to that is that, you know, it is of course true and we all remember the moment a few years
ago when intermediaries were, in fact, bound by us alone as a result of the expansion of the deposit base and
extraordinary actions needed to be taken to address that. So we've seen when it is binding and it works not as designed,
which is why we do very much agree that it should be fixed. I think our point is a little bit, as Jamie said in his
Chairman's letter, that it's not the only thing that needs to be fixed, and there are interactions among all these things.
And we as a bank are not particularly bound by it. There is some interesting nuance too, in terms of the potential TLAC
issuance impact there, which is quite sensitive to which particular fix gets put in. So that will be an interesting thing to
watch.

Steven Chubak, Analyst

Thank you both for that perspective. And just for my follow-up, did want to ask on the markets outlook. So admittedly
less surprising to hear some of the cautious IB commentary in light of the uncertainty. But I was hoping you could just
speak to the markets businesses, which have been performing extraordinarily well of late and just given the combination
of elevated volatility, but also some indications that clients are taking down risk, how you expect that business to
perform over the coming quarters?

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, it's a good question. As you know, Steve, we're obviously not going to give markets guidance. Your guess is as
good as ours at some level, but the ingredients are the right ingredients. I mean, we've often discussed about how this
business, all else equal benefits from a volatile environment if markets are operating relatively normally, which they
more or less have been. Of course, it's not guaranteed. We need to do a good job managing the risk. And yeah, there are
states of the world where if our clients are struggling or deleveraging or taking down risk, that could be a headwind for
us. So we're going to just do what we always do and try to manage the risk well and serve our clients, but we were
certainly happy to see the performance this quarter.

Steven Chubak, Analyst

That's great. Thank you both for taking my questions.

Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Gerard Cassidy with RBC Capital Markets. You may proceed.

Gerard Cassidy, Analyst

Thank you. Hi, Jeremy. Hi, Jamie. Can you guys share with us, if you take a look at the non-traditional lenders, private
credit lenders, they've been very active in grabbing market share from the traditional commercial banks over the last
two or three years, particularly since the initial Basel III endgame proposal came out in July of '23, which is no longer
applicable. But are you guys seeing any opportunities where the customers may reintermediate back into the banks like
your bank because of this volatility?

Page 10 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

I mean, it's hard to tell, Gerard. I think it's too early to tell. But what I would say is that, it's kind of your question aligns
with what we've been saying about this space for some time, which is we want to be product agnostic here and give our
clients the best option that makes sense for them in the moment. So whether that's a traditional syndicated lending
facility or something that looks more like a Uni-Tranche, direct lending type structure, we're open for business for all of
it.
And I would say that when we talk about the financial system being a source -- the banking system being a source of
strength in this environment, part of what we're talking about is our commitment and willingness to lend through cycles
as we've always done in the past and that we have the underwriting capability and the capital and the liquidity and the
experience to be, reliable lenders and serving our clients no matter what type of environment we're in. So, if that means
that we have an opportunity to compete incrementally even more effectively in this environment, that will be great.

Gerard Cassidy, Analyst

Very good. Thank you. And as a follow-up, you both just talked about the potential changes to the different regulatory
outcomes for you and your peers, whether it's SLR or the G-SIB buffer, et cetera. Can you opine for us your views, are
you more confident with the new administration, the new personnel, whether it's Treasury Secretary, Bessent or others,
the nominees for different regulatory heads that there will be a better chance of real regulatory reform they see it the
way you guys do versus the prior administration?

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, I mean, Gerard, we always say this and it's true, which is that we work with all administrations and every
administration as constructively as possible to express our opinions and advocate for the things that we think are right
for the banking system and for the economy as a whole and that was true before and that's true now with this
administration as well. Clearly, the administration has been quite vocal about wanting more pro-growth policies at the
margin and for wanting to make it easier for banks to participate more constructively in the economy. And as we see the
various folks in the various agencies go through the confirmation process, it will be helpful to have people in seats and
get to work on some of the things that we want to get done. So let's see how that plays out. But we're looking forward to
continuing to engage constructively.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I think there's a deep recognition of the flaws in the system and there should be -- and fortunately, they're going to take a
good look at it.

Gerard Cassidy, Analyst

Very good. Thank you

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, Gerard.

Operator

Page 11 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Thank you. Our next question comes from Ebrahim Poonawala with Bank of America. You may proceed.

Ebrahim Poonawala, Analyst

Thank you. Good morning. I just wanted to follow up on the macro uncertainty. I think when you talk to investors,
we've gone from enthusiasm for a pro-business administration to lot of headwinds. And I think Jamie mentioned you
will have companies take down guidance, et cetera, potentially over the coming weeks. I'm just wondering, what is it
you think we need to see before this uncertainty abates? Are the 90-day pause that we saw with some of the other
countries on tariffs, is that enough or I'm just wondering when you talk to clients, corporate CEOs, what are they
looking for from the administration that would inject confidence to get back anywhere close to where we were maybe
60 days or 90 days ago?

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Sure, some of all the issues that are raised existed before the new administration, like the geopolitical situation, the
excess fiscal deficits, poorly done regulations, and all of that. Obviously, pro-growth is good, pro-business is good,
pro-dereg is good. I think the best thing to do is to allow the Secretary of Treasury, and the folks working with him in
the administration to finish as quick as possible the agreements that they need to make with the -- around tariffs and
with our trading partners. And I think there'll be agreements in principle, that are not going to be -- your trade
agreements themselves would be 5,000 or 10,000 pages long, and that's the best way to go about right now. That does
not mean you won't have some of the effects take place anyway.

Ebrahim Poonawala, Analyst

Got it. And I guess as a follow-up, I think there's a lot of concern also in the treasury markets. We've seen the 10-year
move from (inaudible) in a matter of week. Just your comfort level in terms of the functioning of the treasury market, do
you see the Fed stepping in, pausing QE -- QT, maybe even initiating some treasury purchases -- any color would be
great?

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. But again, I mean, we have sticky inflation. We had that before. I personally have told you, I don't think that's
going to go away, and that relates to that. Obviously, the US dollar still is the reserve currency and that isn't going to
change, though some people may feel slightly differently about it. And the Fed -- we've been consistent. There will be a
kerfuffle in treasury markets because of all the rules and regulations. I've told you that consistently, it happened in
COVID, it happened before, it happened, that will happen. And then when that happens, the Fed will step in. That's
what happens. And they're not going to do it now because you don't have all those issues yet. They'll do it when they
start to panic a little bit and we don't know if and when that's going to happen and we'll see. But the notion that the
10-year treasury has to go down is a false notion. If we look at history in prior times when you have huge global deficits
back in the 70s, in the 60s, the guns and butter, tariffs -- at least our economy will be inflationary to 0.5% or something
like that. So we'll have to wait and see and deal with it.

Ebrahim Poonawala, Analyst

Thank you.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Page 12 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

For most people haven't dealt with this stuff before and you're going to see a lot of stuff taking place shortly in the next
couple of months, and then we'll know.

Ebrahim Poonawala, Analyst

Thank you so much.

Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Jim Mitchell with Seaport Global Securities. You may proceed.

Jim Mitchell, Analyst

Hey, good morning. Jeremy, just on -- with four -- three to four cuts sort of almostly in the back half, June to December,
how do you think about the trajectory of NII this year? Is there a little more pressure towards the end of the year into
'26? Just trying to think of that around that trajectory and jumping off point into next year?

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, it's funny, Jim, because I was asked on the press call, how come we're not like suspending guidance or whatever?
And my answer like, well, whatever, good guidance and we do our best and it's contingent on a variety of external
variables and we always make our guidance contingent on that. So -- and that comes...

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

The yield curve you are using, which we know will not happen.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

And the particular nuance, as you recall from last quarter where we went into some detail about the various drivers of
the NII outlook, including a little bit of a suggestion about the quarterly trajectory is that it's both the timing of rates and
our expected evolution of deposit growth in the different businesses and how evolved and how that was all going to
interact, producing a potential trough in different moments and then so on and so forth. I think that given everything
that's going on, on that one probably will wait for next quarter to give you any more color on that. Certainly, the
backloaded cuts, all else equal from a run rate perspective introduced a little bit of a headwind on an exit rate going into
next year, we'll just have to see how the balances play out through the next three quarters.

Jim Mitchell, Analyst

Right. And maybe just...

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

It will not happen that way. And we have a lot of options and what we want to do, to change our exposure to interest
rate.

Page 13 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Jim Mitchell, Analyst

Right. And maybe just on that point on volumes and deposits, obviously, this kind of volatility tends to drive as
corporates and investors go to cash, tends to drive higher deposits. Did you see that trend in March and particularly in
April? What are the trends like in the deposit side of the equation?

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

It's a little hard to tell, to be honest. It is true that wholesale deposits this quarter outperformed for us relative to our
expectations. I don't think I can say with any confidence that that's a result of the environment that we're in. So I think
next quarter will probably be a better time to assess that.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I just also it may not be deposits, it may be treasury bills or various other things. And what you've seen, which is
different, it's that the risk or trade in the 10-year. That is fundamentally different this time.

Jim Mitchell, Analyst

All right. Okay. Thanks for taking my questions.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Thanks.

Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Betsy Graseck with Morgan Stanley. You may proceed.

Betsy Graseck, Analyst

Thanks. Good morning, Jamie. Good morning, Jeremy. Two questions, one for Jamie to kick-off. Jamie, you've been
through many cycles. And -- I think we're all interested in understanding how you think this next cycle is likely to
progress? And I'm wondering, is there anything that you've seen in the past that looks like this or that you would suggest
if any slowdown coming forward? Is it more likely to be similar to what kind of prior cycle you've seen?

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Again, almost impossible answer. We look at all the cycles. And you know we prepare for a full range of outcomes and
not -- I don't personally like predicting what the future is going to hold. But I do -- I pointed out over and over, there's a
lot of issues out there. I think some of those issues you are going to see them resolve for better or for worse in the next
four months. So maybe when we're doing this call next quarter, we won't have to be guessing. We actually know what
the effect of some of these things was, with some predictability and stuff like that.
But -- but it's always -- the result in a bank is almost always the same, which is volatile markets, credit losses go up,
people get more conservative, investments go down, what looks like a recession. Is it mild or hard? I don't know and --
but we are -- I've been quite cautious and you can see in our capital, liquidity, our position, our balance sheet, and so

Page 14 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

we're prepared, but we do all of that so we can serve our clients through thick or thin. We're not guessing about what the
future is going to hold. Obviously, if you look at our numbers, we have the margins and capability to get through just
about anything.

Betsy Graseck, Analyst

Excellent. Okay. No, thank you for that. And then...

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

But then this is different, okay. This is different. This is the global economy and please read my Chairman's letter. The
most important thing to me, if the Western world stays together economically when we get through all this and
militarily to keep the world safe and free for democracy. That is the most important thing. I really almost don't care
fundamentally about what the economy does in the next two quarters. That isn't that important. We'll get through that.
We've had recessions before and all that. It's the ultimate outcome. What's the goal? How can we get there? And it's
literally that. I mean, and I -- the China issue is a major issue. I don't know how that's going to turn out. We obviously
have to follow the law of the land, but it's a significant change we've never seen in our lives.

Betsy Graseck, Analyst

Okay. Thank you so much for that. And yes, looking forward to the next four months and clarity coming. So then one
for Jeremy. Question on the wholesale loans. I'm going into this because I noticed your average loan growth, I think it
was running at about 2% year-on-year, and then end-of-period loans was up 5% and wholesale loans was up 7%. So I'm
just wondering if there was some line drawdowns at quarter end, and it's a broader question on just liquidity. Do you see
your customers looking for more liquidity? Are they drawing down lines? And maybe if you could speak to liquidity in
the front-end of the market, that'd be helpful too? Thank you.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, it's a good question, Betsy. So a couple of things. One is, in our soundings of our wholesale clients during sort of
the moments of peak uncertainty, we did hear them talking about wanting to focus on shoring up liquidity. Interestingly,
I actually asked the question like a day ago, whether we were seeing draws, meaning -- meaningfully observable draws
from clients? And the answer to that question was no, at least not yet. So I don't know what to make of that, but perhaps
it suggests that we do not see, you know that level of heightened anxiety that people are more just focusing on
addressing their supply chain issues right now. Yeah, so on wholesale loans, beyond that, I don't think there's that much
of a story. We're seeing a bit more growth in sort of like markets loans as opposed to traditional C&I loans in the current
moment, but that's not a term over there. Did you have a -- yeah, you asked -- what did you ask also front-end of the
yield curve liquidity?

Betsy Graseck, Analyst

Yeah, just in money markets, Fed funds, the front-end seem to suggest...

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

You know what we've heard from our -- from our markets colleagues is that that's actually functioning quite smoothly.

Page 15 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Betsy Graseck, Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Thanks.

Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Mike Mayo with Wells Fargo Securities. You may proceed.

Mike Mayo, Analyst

Hey, Jamie, you just said on this call, there's a quote deep recognition of flaws unquote by the new regulatory regime.
And can you put you or Jeremy, put some meat on the bones as far as what's been an ideal scenario? You keep the
safety and soundness of the system, but you rid as much as red tape and bureaucracy as possible. How much could
expenses potentially decline? I assume you'd pass on some of that to customers and you'd keep some of that, and the
regulators would save money. So some meat on the bones about the potential concrete savings from deregulation. But
before that, the negative, which you highlighted in the press release and the Chairman letter about the trade wars, Jamie,
you went from trade wars, quote, get over it to this week, say, do something. So just as far as the tariff journey, what
were you initially expecting to what happened? And do you really think, next earnings call will be through most of the
uncertainty? Thanks.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. No, I don't think we'll necessarily be through all the uncertainty. I think you'll just know a lot more. And my
quote was about to get over. I wish I hadn't said it. I was specifically referring to tariffs relating to protecting national
security. National security is paramount. All things should be subordinated to it. You may need tariffs to help fix some
of the problems related to national security. National security is a small part of trade. So -- and it's rare earth, penicillin,
medical ingredients, certain types of -- obviously, you've heard about semiconductors. That was my quote about ghetto
[ph] I did not change my view about it.
I would like to see the administration negotiate trade deals. I think that would be good for everybody, and they want to
do it too. The extent they want to do it, they said they're having conversations with 70 or 80 any different people. And
so I do think if the regulators change regulations, it will free up capital and liquidity to finance the system. And I
wouldn't expect a expense drawdown that you're going to see, okay? There will be thousands -- hundreds of people
maybe, but it's not going to be passed on, but it will reduce net-net the cost of liquidity and the cost of loans and the cost
of mortgages if it's done right. I specifically pointed out the mortgage issue, my Chairman's letter this year about, if they
do some of these reforms, then cost of mortgage come down 70 basis points. If I were them, I'd be focusing out right
now.

Mike Mayo, Analyst

And you also mentioned hundreds of billions of dollars of extra lending if you reduce the CET1 ratio, I guess, back
down by one-fifth, so it seems...

Page 16 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

If you do all -- You have to fix LCR, G-SIB, CCAR, SLR, and I think we'd free up hundreds of billions of dollars for
J.P. Morgan annually of various types of lending to the system. Some would be markets, some would be middle-market
loans, et cetera. And I pointed out, if you wanted to look at the big numbers that loans to deposits are now 70% for the
banking system a bit large. That used to be 100%. And the reason for that isn't -- it's not just capital, it is also LCR, it is
also G-SIB, is also -- and the question you should ask because you are very smart, Mike is, could you have the same --
and I believe you have a safer system, lend more money, have more liquidity, eliminate bank runs, eliminate what
happened the First Republic of Silicon Valley, and you can accomplish all of that with completely rational and
thoughtful regulations. That's what I would like to see them do. I don't know what's going to happen. Where we're going
to (multiple speakers). You can read our -- I think our (inaudible) public and stuff like that. And so they should do that.
Just make a better system. Have the best in the world. We've kind of starting to cripple it slowly. If you don't -- I'd say
when you look at these rules and regulations, see Europe. That's where we want to go, let's just go there.

Mike Mayo, Analyst

One for a follow-up, just -- in first quarter, you mentioned good credit, good trading, good EPSB. I'm not sure anyone
cares or worried more about the things we're talking about here. But in terms of the risk of being an international
company -- an international US company during trade wars, and I know J.P. Morgan is a firm that likes to partner with
countries as well as communities and customers. So how do you think about that risk? How should we think about that
risk? And hopefully your voice is being heard to speed things along to whatever can be done getting it done because you
could be in the crosshairs at some point.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

I honestly add that to the list of worries. We will be in the crosshairs. That's what's going to happen. And it's okay.
We're deeply embedded in these other countries, people like us, but I do think some clients or some countries will feel
differently about American banks, and we'll just have to deal with that.

Mike Mayo, Analyst

All right. Thank you.

Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Glenn Schorr with Evercore. Your line is open.

Glenn Schorr, Analyst

Hi, just one follow-up on this whole risk management/regulatory front. I see, I hear, and I agree, a flawed regulatory
system could be better. We've had massive volatility. The market plumbing has held in okay so far. And you and others
have had borderline spectacular trading results. So has something changed? Are you -- are the systems better? Are they
better able to hand it as your risk management, your people, the diversity of your platform better? Or are there still
environments where not all volatility is good, just curious to get your big picture thought? Thanks.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Page 17 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

I mean, maybe I'll start with that one Glenn. So I guess I think your points aren't mutually exclusive, meaning, I mean
we're always continually improving the franchise. We've talked a lot about inward investment in all of our businesses,
including markets. And so we try to be more complete and invest in technology and work more closely with our clients.
So I'm sure we're kind of better at it than we were five years ago, as I think probably everyone is at the margin. I'm not
sure that you can associate that with the current performance. I think these just happen to be very favorable conditions
that we've managed very successfully.
And to your point, I think your specific question of like, is there -- are there still forms of volatility that can be bad for
the markets franchise? The answer to that question is definitely yes. When you have gap e [ph] volatility with no trading
volume, people paralyze, clients unsure what to do, active managers struggling, those environments are bad. So people
make fun of the kind of good volatility, bad volatility story, but we like it or not, it's real. And in the end, we just have to
manage the risks and serve the clients. And as I said earlier, we're happy to see that.

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

Jeremy, I agree. Jeremy, I'd add to that volatility leads to bigger bid ask spreads that all things being equal is better and
at least sometimes to higher volumes. So you've seen really high volumes in FX and interest rate swaps and whole
bunch of different things, treasuries that's better. But as you already pointed out, sometimes that kind of at least very
low volumes, like you've seen in DCM today, when you don't have these bond deals where you have less trading, when
you have -- so it will have lower volumes in certain markets and stuff like that. And how it all filter through is almost
impossible to tell. But our folks do a great job and we're here to help our clients. So we know that volumes can go up or
down and spreads go up or down and (inaudible). But the plumbing of the system -- I would say the plumbing worked
well during COVID too. I mean, it wasn't the plumbing that was a problem and it wasn't even a problem to go back to
some of the real crises we've had. So -- but you show was always worried about that kind of thing, make sure it stays
true.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

And I do think that the fact that the revenue performance in this quarter is good and shouldn't make us lose focus on the
importance of the larger fixes around financial resource deployment by regulated banks to supporting the capital
markets ecosystem. Everything Jamie has been talking about SLR, LCR, ILST, G-SIB, possible (inaudible) mRWA, the
whole panoply of items, which interacts as we've often talked about and is miscalibrated, it will at the margin make it
harder for banks to serve a stabilizing function in a difficult moment. So that remains quite important as a policy
priority.

Glenn Schorr, Analyst

That's a great point. Thanks for that. I appreciate it.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, Glenn.

Operator
Thank you. And our final question will go to the line of Saul Martinez with HSBC. You may proceed.

Page 18 of 20
Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

Saul Martinez, Analyst

Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Most of my questions have been asked and answered, but I guess
I'll ask about costs since nobody has asked it. But I guess, how should we think about the cost structure and any sort of
cost optimization efforts, if you do see a revenue slowdown, but not necessarily a severe downturn? I think you do have
in the $95 billion guidance, you do have a good amount of growth penciled in for investing in bankers and branches and
tech and marketing. And I guess, do you -- does it make sense or under what conditions would it make sense for you to
maybe pull back on some of these investments or do you think that's just completely shortsighted unless we see a real
significant downturn in the economy.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

Yeah. So you've slightly answered your own question there Saul. But it is nonetheless a good question. So let me
unpack it a little bit. So the way I think about it is, there are some elements of the expense base, which automatically
reset as a function of the business environment. So we talk about those as volume and revenue-related expenses. So you
will see those come down as a function of the environment. It's also true that there are conceivably certain investment
business cases, which depending on how the environment changes, could no longer make sense analyzed in the same
way that we analyzed them originally, i.e., through the lens of their ability to generate long-term shareholder value
through a long investment cycle.
And so if for whatever reason, the environment changes in such a way is to make certain of those investments less
compelling, we would obviously adjust. Of course, the thing that we're not going to do, is stop investing in things that
we still think are very compelling through our traditional long-term investment simply for the purposes of achieving a
cosmetic reduction in expenses in an environment where you may or may not have a reduction in revenues for unrelated
reasons. As you well know, that's just not how we run the company. This quarter, as it happens, a question you might
have is, how are you managing to keep your guidance the same with what you're saying about, for example, the
investment banking outlook, but it's worth noting that investment banking performance this quarter was actually fine.
As you know, markets performance was very strong. And there are also some ups and downs in there, I should note,
including the fact that there is some sensitivity to the expense base to the strength of the dollar or the weakness in this
case. And while some of that is offset in revenue, it's a little noisy. So that's a factor as well. It's small, but I'm just
highlighting that there are some slightly non-obvious things that are non-strategic of...

Jamie Dimon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer

As you said management thing, I think it's very important and I always talk about good expenses and bad expenses and
the good expenses of the bankers and branches that we think will pay-off and -- but there are also bad expenses, which I
would put in the category of bureaucracy, a lack of efficiency, things you don't need to do. And you can imagine -- if
you go to -- if you read my Chairman's letter, the last exit [ph] is called management learnings. And if you look at
companies that over time fail, it's almost always bureaucracy, complacency, arrogance, and lack of attention to detail.
And so there is -- we're put -- we're making a -- I shouldn't say put a mad at myself and not doing it sooner to spend a
little more time that after COVID, the add, the buildup in headcount, the buildup in rules and regulations, the people
working or not working from home, after all of those things, we just think there's more efficiency here.
And I think some of the -- and Mike Mayo mentioned this thing about regulation. He is right, there will be reductions in
cost because rules and regulations will be modified a little bit. I mean we -- I pointed out resolution recovery, which is a
complete waste of time is 80,000 pages long. It will never happen that way. CCAR, which is virtually a waste of time is
20,000 pages long. Okay. We report a trillion -- I think it's a trillion bits of data every day or something like that to the --
all the various regulators and stuff like that. There is a successive cost built-up that we -- that hopefully we can get rid of
and reduce the cost of the system and -- but it's not the brand new branches. So I know the folks here are working on
what we call streamlining. (Inaudible) has got a war room going on it. We already have a significant amount of saves

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Company Name: JPMorgan Market Cap: 644514.1015358232 Bloomberg Estimates - EPS
Company Ticker: JPM US Current PX: 231.58999633789062 Current Quarter: 4.537
Date: 2025-04-11 YTD Change($): -8.12 Current Year: 18.175
Event Description: Q1 2025 Earnings Call YTD Change(%): -3.387 Bloomberg Estimates - Sales
Current Quarter: 43982
Current Year: 175823.077

and stuff like that. So -- and we're having fun doing it. It's like -- to me, it's like exercising eating your spinach. It's what
we should be doing. We haven't done it for a while. So and I apologize to my shareholders for not having done this well
before.

Saul Martinez, Analyst

Okay. That's very clear. Very helpful. Thank you.

Jeremy Barnum, Chief Financial Officer

With that, thanks very much. Thank you. (Multiple Speakers).

Operator
Thank you all for participating in today's conference. You may disconnect at this time and have a great rest of your day.

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